and the way **I** read it is that the "4 month rule" is WELL known.. the bitch "never put a foot wrong" - there is NO DOUBT the owners and the handler knew the rules.. if any and everyone is so certain she would have won anyway, why do this?? I don't know the owners, I have never seen the bitch, but the whole thing smacks of "the rules apply to everyone but me.." Sue Madlung - Shadowacre Reg'd German Shepherds ----- Original Message ----- From: barbmarkh@xxxxxxx To: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Like the kids GOSSIP game - sorry long Okay now - lets see if we can sneak a few facts into this discussion The bitch I guess in question is the BIF bitch - and Jerry is a breeder on the litter and co-owns the stud dog. - from the catalogue Jerry is not an owner - but I believe he is the usual handler . . The bitch handled in January by Jerry has Paul Root listed as a co-owner . . .and the catalogue lists Jerry as the handler Somewhere between 3 months and 15 days to 3 months and 22 days passed from the show in January until the fut/mat in Washington. There is no way to count these days to make it four months . . . I think we all agree to this point - Now - I hope everyone can agree that the idea behind the 4 month rule is to avoid the appearance of any favoritism - I'm not sure that 120 days or 4 months makes one (a judge) any more honest than 6 months or 3 months - but the rule says 4 months!!!!         Now I read that this had been a rule for some period of time - I had always heard and read from Guidelines for Judges - that this was just that - a guideline - which appears now to be a policy. I read in the Judges newsletter that the word guidelines has been removed and that the new booklet saying these are rules and polices is not printed yet for publication (you can go to the AKC web site and print out a copy). . .so it must be recent that this went to a policy instead of a guideline? Next - I'm not sure that we can equate the breaking of the 4 month rule by those 8-15 days as implying that those days influenced Paul's decision in any way.  The bitch in question is a beautiful girl - who showed extremely well that day - actually I think one could say she never put a foot down wrong on that day - there were other very nice bitches there - but I didn't hear any one that was there say that this bitch should not have won the futurity (well, maybe one person) - but I didn't hear any one say she won because Jerry showed her!!!!!  She is a quality bitch that will finish easily . . .  So lets not get carried away!!!!     I don't think there is any judge that ringside agrees with 100% - buy I have watched Paul judge before and thought that his judging this time was very consistent with his previous judging.  Next - and I could be wrong here - but I don't think that the person that filed the complaint was even present at the show - - - not that that matters to the issue of 4 months - Oh yes - I have nothing to do with the BIF bitch, I didn't breed her, I don't own the sire or the dam and I don't own her - And - before you ask - I do own the BIM bitch - and we chose to show her under Paul Root because we thought he would like her - and then we looked for a handler to show her. . . Jerry had shown her to RBIF the year before and didn't have a bitch in her class - I thought Jerry did a great job with her and I thought she looked and showed great - no one told me that they thought she shouldn't have won (not that they would) - I will say that if I knew then what I know now - I still would have taken her to the NW maturity to show her under Paul - but I would have brought a handler with me!!!! Barb -----Original Message----- From: LeBrowngsd@xxxxxxx To: sally@xxxxxxxxxxx; Lindabankhead@xxxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:14 pm Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Beat a dead horse n a message dated 6/21/2007 8:50:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ally@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: inda hat has me amazed is why no one has complained about this in past shows - t goes on all the time all over the country- ************************************************** ould it be that no one had the guts to actually file a complaint but omeone at this futurity had the guts and did it. Maybe they decided two rongs on't make a right and enough is enough. ee Brown ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. =========================================================================== OST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original uthor and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind re permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the howgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 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ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/862 - Release Date: 6/22/2007 3:04 PM ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================