In a message dated 7/15/2006 11:02:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, inflight2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: People keep saying "the Temperament Certification tests all this" - I don't trust the TC anymore -- I've seen too much of the following that I won't even participate in it anymore: 1) 2 dogs, same breeder - ZERO reaction passed this portion of the test. Every other portion of the test, including the weird stranger, these two dogs had very little if any reaction to any of the stimuli. They passed. These were not house dogs, they were owned by a breeder and housed in a kennel. 2) 1 dog - flipped out at the umbrella - I watched carefully - several minutes (not 20 seconds) later the dog had still not touched the umbrella or got close to it even with a lot of coaxing. The dog passed. 3) Same dog - Weird stranger came out - dog hung his head, looked nervous. Weird stranger escalated - dog ran behind the handler (was visibly scared). Dog passed. 4) This same evaluator had a "trainee" evaluate their own dog as they ran through the same test where they were the "official" evaluator, it passed. 5) Another dog, when the umbrella was popped in front of them, it stood there and then went after the umbrella. Failed. 6) Another dog, when the weird stranger came out, they looked at the weird stranger, stood out alert, but not overly worried. Low score. 7) Same dog as 6, when the weird stranger escalated, the dog went out to the end of the lead and barked in warning. Low score. 8) Another dog, marked low on the "friendly stranger" because the dog wasn't "friendly back". Perhaps this is bad evaluating - but there are dogs out there with TC's that shouldn't have passed - and have gone on to gain the highest awards possible in the PC. It seems to me that we should be repairing the existing test not making a new test that people can find there way around. Kathleen I wish you had video taped the Temp. test you describe above and sent it to the board. I am sure they on seeing this would take steps to correct this. With a PROPER test administered a lot of the questions you and several others have brought up could be addressed. They are valid questions and with a proper test [maybe a little tougher] many not all but many could be addressed. The key is to have proof of these transgressions hearsay won't do it. In fact a good rule and an easy one to administer would be to make it mandatory that all Temp. Test be video taped with the score sheet shown in the video. Fred ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================