[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Kudos to Barb Williams
- From: "Penny & Bill" <Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <Gsdman2@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:51:06 -0500
I am very sorry if you found my comment on bloodlines being "tired" insulting.
It was not meant to be . Tired referred to the many problems in the American
lines today--and I should have prefaced that with the fact that I have ALL
American lines. I generally buy my GSDs--from the few people in this breed who
I can trust. I find that too many people are breeding their dogs for the next
big winner--dogs are being bred with no hip or elbow certification, spooks are
being bred, animals are being used that have already produced toxic gut,
torsion, bloat, pancreatic problems, the list goes on and on.
You're right when you say that there is no "magic" which would identify a
problem. Maybe, the "magic" will be the gentic markers that will be able to
identify these problems someday. One can only hope.
Penny in NY
Penny & Bill
Landsend Kennels
Since 1974
----- Original Message -----
From: Gsdman2@xxxxxxx
To: Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx ; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Kudos to Barb Williams
In a message dated 12/23/2004 8:12:10 AM Central Standard Time,
Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
Check your pedigrees--they all go back to the same 2 or 3 dogs.
How far back should we look? Do we stop at fifty years to find common
ancestors to lay the blame on, or do we go all the way to Horand, a hundred
years? There is no magic in identifying a previously existing problem and then
laying blame for it on common ancestors. You can pick any trait, good or bad,
and assign it to those few common ancestors, merely because they are "common
ancestors" ... (just as Horand is). The problems existed through and before
those dogs. You must go well beyond Horand and the very existence of the GSD
as a breed if you plan to find a genetic beginning to almost any breed problem
because we are not talking about breed specific problems. In fact, many of the
problems our breed suffers are even more common in other breeds.
In my opinion, it is good breeding practice to trace traits as carefully as
you can within the first few generations of the pedigrees you are working with.
That is what good breeders do. It is also my opinion though, that the theory
of tracing problems back to any individual or small group of dogs, while not
considering the existence of the very same problems beyond those dogs, and
beyond the breed itself, is little more than a witch hunt. There is nothing
constructive about condemning a huge portion of the breed's overall population,
merely because they share a common ancestor that lived decades ago. All GSDs
share common ancestors, and if a breeding coefficient after decades is
considerable, then it applies to all in equal proportions. I find the
suggestion that our bloodlines are "tired" to be insulting, and I am still
waiting to hear any sensible argument to support that accusation.
Before the "breeding coefficient" theory is stated again, I will interject
that if you have a dog that shares a great grandsire in all four possible great
grandsire slots in the pedigree, you still have four great grandmothers
contributing to his gene pool. Since you cannot determine how much influence
each great grandam gave to their progeny, you can only assume that the
concentration on the great grandsire has increased the odds of passing
proportionately more of his genes down, but that does not mean that the great
grandmother's genes were not also passed down, and the mathematics themselves
certainly do not take into consideration a breeder's job of selecting for
improvement.
Tom Langlitz
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