I was serious as a heart attack...however, you are free to believe what ever you want, I see and believe that there is a difference in the two venues...never said either was perfect or infallible.... just different, and I stated MY reasons why.......Ed Hill Jarvyce@xxxxxxx wrote: In a message dated 12/13/2005 10:11:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: I will try to answer that.....but I think Fred already did.....most dog shows are all breed shows, therefore most judges that do Shepherds at these shows are not Shepherd judges, therefore they do not have the same study and understanding of the breed as a typical specialty judge...this does not automatically mean that the all-breed judge can not find the best dogs...but far too many times he looks at the popular handler who usually brings good dogs into the ring...I am sure there are other reasons for the difference and there is a difference....like I said ...lets have GSD judges at all shows, be they all-breed or specialty.........yea I know, it will never happen, but they said we would never have a woman president also, and that one is coming too...oops..no politics on the list...lol...Its tough to be a man!...lol...FB Did you write this being serious or joking?? Not being nasty, but I had a great laugh over this. Judges are human beings and by that virtue, flawed. Like specialty judges don't look up the lead! Like anyone can just walk into a specialty ring and do well with a good dog? Do you really feel that specialty judges have done anything above and beyond in learning about the breed? Don't you think that as breeders they come with a preconceived idea of what the GSD should be through their interpretation of the standard and the style they themselves bred, owned, or exhibited? Both systems are flawed, but that is due to human nature. As for "one standard", most people breed to the standard. Again you seem to disregard the humanness of the owners and their individual STYLE. That interpretation is what causes the differences in the dogs we see. Then ad to it that the judges award their own interpretation and preference of style and it is a continuous circle. Arvind Arvind & Joyce deBraganca _www.passport-anatolians.com_ (http://www.passport-anatolians.com/) & _www.redwing-anatolians.com_ (http://www.redwing-anatolians.com/) "It is difficult for a religious man to stand and watch his church burn." - Joe Bihari ( \ / ) ( \()/ ) ( / \ ) TAKE THIS LITTLE ANGEL ( / \/ \ ) AND KEEP HER CLOSE TO YOU / \ SHE IS YOUR GUARDIAN ANGEL ( ) SENT TO WATCH OVER YOU ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================