In a message dated 6/1/2007 11:56:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, EKOLAN1@xxxxxxx writes: As with any problem we have in our dogs that we can fix such as swimmers there is always the possibility that it can get away from us not because we don't care but because we don't know for sure why it happens. I'll go with the multiple causes theory. I can't discount heredity. The swimmers I have seen haven't been mine, but they have been big, fat, lazy puppies who just never left the dairy bar and mom had so much milk in every case that they just laid flat and were gluttons. Common sense tells my that's more likely in small-ish litters when babies don't have to work fighting siblings to stay on a nipple. I can't discount what is used on the floor for a whelping box. If it's hard for puppies to get around, I can get my mind around some not working too hard at it especially the lazy, fat ones. I can get my mind around a puppy being positioned oddly in the womb too. Once in a while a puppy has an oddly shaped head that gets better in the first day or two, why not ribs somewhat flat? Especially if it was a large litter, a tough delivery or momma was particular small? It makes sense to me also that a puppy failing to thrive right after birth might lay too long on its chest, flattening soft ribs. If we wanted to see with any kind of clarity what role heredity played in all of this, we'd have to breed those that we knew or suspected were either born with it or had a litter mate and were suspected carriers, (keeping the other factors constant to the extent its possible to do so), and I know I don't have the stomach for that. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC three generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions live here! visit www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================