Actually, that "beyond a reasonable doubt" apparently is not the case in all civil cases, only criminal cases. At least, that's what the narrator said on a program I watched last night on the OJ Simpson trial (yes, they still run programs on that fiasco). He said, very clearly, that while in criminal cases the jury, in order to find a defendant guilty, must make that finding without a reasonable doubt, but that was not a requirement in civil court. Apparently that's why OJ was not guilty of murder but in his civil trial was found responsible for murder. (I don't understand the difference there, but there must be one.) Peggy Stormy435@xxxxxxx wrote: >The phrase "innocent until "PROVEN" guilty always interested me. It seems >to me that it's presumed innocent until judged guilty...etc.... There are >some innocents incarcerated, and guilty walking free, so I did some looking. >found this on a UK board. The whole thread was fascinating. > >"http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/22/messages/616.html" > >: The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution reads, in part, "No person >shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law >..." >: What this means, in plain terms, is that constitutionally you cannot be >executed, imprisoned, or fined without the proper course of justice taking >place.As you found out, due process, itself, is not defined in the >constitution, but >is universally recognized as meaning what we term as "a fair trial." > >: Going forward from there, a fair trial by a jury of one's peers requires >that the jurors approach the case with the thought that the prosecution is >required to prove the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Since the >trial >begins with the prosecution not having introduced a single piece of evidence, >it follows that a defendant must be innocent, until proven guilty. > >So, the meaning of "..innocent until proven guilty.." derives from the fifth >amendment > > ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================