I have had coats.BRED them to non coat factor..I will not show one..they are
not typical of our breed .there coats take a lot of grooming..I don't care how
great they move..now everyone is showing them..people are BREEDING for
coats.which
Means they are BREEDING faults..I dont breed for missing teeth or poor coming
and going..I try and breed one to the standard..my opinion and iam not a fault
finder.some in the breed for over fifty years with over 100 champions
On June 25, 2015, at 6:31 PM, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Just us! Others aspects of the "dog venues" have different standards(
requirements) Ed
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------ Original Message ------
From: Evan Ginsburg
To: freelist
Sent: June 25, 2015 at 11:35 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] If bred to the standard, they would all look alike
Who else is doing breeding to the standard?
Evan
-----Original Message-----
From: edwinx <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: dmarc-noreply <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; showgsd-l
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2015 10:56 am
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: I am not stupid
So counselor, are you suggesting that most search and rescue and police dogs
come from show breeders? If so I'd object based on assuming facts that are not
in evidence! lol Ed
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------ Original Message ------
From: Evan Ginsburg
To: freelist
Sent: June 25, 2015 at 10:37 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] I am not stupid
The reason the working dogs, the police dogs, the search and rescue dogs don't
look like what we see in the ring is a simple answer.
If I have a litter, and there in one that has great type, moves as the standard
calls for and has great temperament, it is not going to be sold to someone to
work search and rescue. Nor is that dog going to the police department.
When I get the best of the best, it is headed to the show ring.
Evan
-----Original Message-----
From: edwinx <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
To: cherpa <cherpa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cherpa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>; 'DaList'
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>; edangsd
<edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>; Carolyn Martello
<marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>; adonispersian
<adonispersian@xxxxxxx<mailto:adonispersian@xxxxxxx>>
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2015 10:17 am
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: : utility and Coats
Carolyn we agree 100% on this one! And shame on me for Mis-interpreting your
post! Long hairs are way more labor intense! A big pain in the ass! But now I
have a question.. Why is it that most search and rescue, police, tracking
cadaver , guide dog German Shepherd dogs don't look like the dogs in our show
ring? They most certainly are working GSDs! Ed
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------ Original Message ------
From: Carolyn Martello
To: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Celeste, freelist,
edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
adonispersian@xxxxxxx<mailto:adonispersian@xxxxxxx>
Sent: June 25, 2015 at 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: : utility and Coats
My point was NEVER that a long coat is incapable of any work.....EVER....and if
it sounded that way I apologize for my inability
to articulate correctly. What I am SAYING is that a long coat causes MUCH
LABOR AFTER THE ACTUAL WORK!. Maybe you have to actually WORK to get the ice
balls off a coat ( hours )..before it will actually dry off...the stickers,
the dirt and debri and ragged tearing that a long coat suffers doing any work
in any of those conditions to really understand what I am saying.
When we throw the Standard out BECAUSE we personally do not herd, or do Search
and Rescue or Avalanche work orTtracking or need a Guide Dog with our
GSD....then we lose the Breed as it is meant to be. Our show dogs SHOULD BE
HELD TO THAT
STANDARD....mentally, physicallty and appearance-wise...whether WE do the work
with them or not.
Why would we even bother exhibiting dogs in competition against the Standard if
it doesn't matter because we don't use our
particular show dog for the actual work it is bred to do. The Standard is to
protect those qualities and characteristics......?
This discussion is NOT AGAINST ANY COAT that was or was not 'put up'....but IMO
more about our working Breed. Also
IMO we have a great Standard...easy to understand...the reasons are easy to
understand and the Breed is AWESOME
because of our Standard.
Again....show me someone looking for a great herding dog, search and rescue
dog, protection dog, avalanche dog that
says they will TAKE THE COAT BECAUSE IT HAS MORE FRONT REACH.....and be willing
to spend the hours after
the actual work ....working again....trying to clean and groom the dog..... and
I will call it a day on this subject.
( There is a lot I cannot explain about Puli's or Beardies or Komidors.....<G>
I don't own one by choice.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
www.marhaven.com<http://www.marhaven.com>
On Behalf Of edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Three points here: 1.none of the dogs in the ring are "working" 2. It is an
incorrect assumption that a coat because of its hair length has a utility
disadvantage ( working ability has more to do with stamina and mental drive
than anything else... Look at the Komidor with all those dread-locks! And 3.
Putting up a coat at a show does NOT mean the quality of the other dogs was
poor! It means the coat in that judges mind was superior!... I know we aren't
supposed to talk about individual dogs on the list but Tracy Radigan has a coat
that just blows me away! I have no issue losing to that bitch and I think my
bitch ( Liz's bitch)is very nice! Ed
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------ Original Message ------
From: Carolyn Martello
To: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Celeste, freelist,
edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
adonispersian@xxxxxxx<mailto:adonispersian@xxxxxxx>
Sent: June 25, 2015 at 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: : simple utility and Coats
I absolutely agree with that 100%!!!
However I have not yet seen the quality of the dogs ( SO FAR ) at the shows be
so poor as to deserve to lose to a coat....simply because a missing tooth or an
even bite or whatever you want to list does not affect the actual utility and
upkeep
of the dog like a coat can in actual work. That's all I'm sayin'..........
This is not condemnation of one particular fault.....but consideration of the
actual
working attributes of any dog.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
www.marhaven.com<http://www.marhaven.com>
From: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx?>]
Long coat fault and ribs!.... The GSD standard says that the long coat is a
fault as are other attributes such as missing tooth, even bite etc etc.......
If that coated dog is better in every way than all the other dogs in the class
with the exception of coat, then that dog should win! There is no perfect
dog !
