> IMO I don't think extremely angulated dogs move correctly according > to the > Standard and the point of my original post was to find out why they > continue to > win or why I'm not correct in my opinion. > ------------------------------------------------------ > The problem is, the word "extreme" is relative to a person's point > of view. > If you compare a dog's angles to the angles stated in the standard, > you just > might be surprised to find out that the angles you believe are > correct, might > actually be lacking. I wouldn't know if that is the case or not as > I'd have to > be a mind reader to see things as you do. > Tom Langlitz Thanks Tom.... Here is the foundation stone of the "problem" we face in determining what is correct. The terms, the view and the understanding is relative to our perception. We are told these days that perception is reality - that is: everyone has a different reality shaped by their perception. That is why we go to shows with dogs who have lost before, hoping for a different reality in the next judge. That is why we take our losses and keep going. If everyone had the same view, the same mind set and the same objective reality, only one dog should show up at the show, - well, maybe one dog, one bitch and one Special. I fight doggedly to get other people to understand proper movement. Why in the world would anyone prefer a front that hits the end of it's extension 4 inches off the ground (lift). I don't know, but some do. Why would anyone breed dogs that cannot carry through on the rear stroke, stopping half way through (Locked). I don't know, but they do. WHY DO PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH ME.... * Can I help it if I'm right? * You don't have to agree with me, you have the right to be wrong! * Someone has to be right, and it might as well be me!!! * I did make a mistake once, I thought I had been wrong but I was wrong about that! And so it goes.... <VBG> We each have that view in our mind that we perceive as reality - what the standard says, and we can see it on the field of competition, while all the time the person standing next to us is doing the same thing, and seeing things totally different. Is that a sad state of affairs? Not at all. It is the foundation stone of the Sport of the Pure Bred Dog. That is why we require points from at least three judges and majors from two - to accommodate the phenomena of difference of perception and opinion. What I am NOT saying is that we have the right to ignore the standard because of personal preference. I am not advocating that we remove the standard in favor of judging on the basis of individual likes and dislikes. In fact, the next judge who tells me my bi-color boy is too dark, I think I'll just punch them!!! <G> What I am trying to say, possibly has already been said better by Tom.... I would have to get inside someone else's head the see through their eyes to understand what they are seeing or not seeing, and that is not going to happen. I will just have to influence, preach and argue my perception and hopefully be open to receive the same in return. In the end, we will never all agree, never see the breed with the same eyes and perception and will keep going to show, not in spite of those differences, but because of them. There is my Sunday Morning sermon..... Dave ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================