[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Herding with Dogs stresses sheep???

  • From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
  • To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Stormy435@xxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:10:37 EDT

Ughhh, you're lucky then (or the sheep were!).  My first experience  was in 
Bangor PA, gosh would have been close to twelve years ago now.  I  never 
went back to herd there (but did attend several trials, as  a spectator not as 
a competitor because the methods and facilities made  me...well...nervous.)
 
Years later I went once or twice a week w/ four dogs for two, maybe  three 
seasons.  I found the Animal Inn in Smyrna DE (where dogs WERE  started in a 
controlled round pen).  It was a LOT further to go, but I  think we earned 
8-9 titles over the next two years. Again, I don't claim to  be an expert by 
any means.  I freely admit learning to "read" sheep  (while maintaining 
control of my dog no less!) was one of the most difficult  things I've ever 
done in dogs.  Oh I wish I had dogs that would work for  someone else!  It 
would have been so nice to let the pros do it, lol!
 
Where I observed the most trouble and injuries to sheep was with green  
dogs and greener owners. I include myself in that observation.  There  were 
times w/ a green dog that I wasn't where I should have been and the dog  went 
in for a nip. Now, I have to tell you, the instructors I worked with didn't  
want you to come down on them too hard for that.  So, some nipping was  
"ok", depending on where you were w/ training, too much wasn't.
 
There seems to be a point, and again, these are MY observations over two to 
 three years, despite the best intentions of an instructor, and especially  
despite the best intentions of someone trying to learn to read sheep (!!!!) 
when  a dog progresses to coming out of the round pen, in somewhat less of 
a  controlled environment, where it can all go to h*ll very quickly.
 
The two broken legs I saw happen when a sheep ran into a fixed  object.  
(Not my dog(s) thank goodness!)
 
What I observed w/ ducks is that if they got tread on, they would  
apparently suffer some sort of internal injury and be dead the next AM.  (I  
didn't 
'do" ducks, just helped at a few trials.)  That's not to say the  judges 
didn't step in and stop things if the dog wasn't under control, they  
absolutely did, but for the poor duck.....
 
 
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd  Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)   

 
In a message dated 9/24/2009 2:33:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

How odd!
I've helped at Trials and been to many  ( ducks and sheep  )  and had 
several of our dogs herd and earn 
H.T. titles to HSAS titles  and even tested very young dogs and  I've only 
seen one injured sheep....and 
that was when working at our Club's Trial  when a big Bouvier ( sp  )  
tried to take one out.
The handlers, judges and trainers we've been  around usualy never let it 
accelerate to that point.    Also  the 
ranch we normally take our dogs to for training IS a top Malinois  
Breeder.......about ALL of her dogs are 
titled....??     Of course she has the knowledge to  know which ones to 
herd with and which ones to NOT. <G>
 
Of course the sheep are stressed.......<G>.......as any time  they are 
being pushed to move by a big dog,  and 
not grazing they are not happy.  <G>      You want a dog that stresses them 
as little as possible when moving
them and willing to stop when asked ......if not instinctively on their  
own.
The idea is to have a dog stay wide and not move the sheep too  
fast..........and a 'good' herding dog is willing
to do both .......while learning that and AKC rules from the  trainer.   If 
the dog is not willing to do any of the  above
it is not a good herding prospect.  IMO
For a trainer to constantly protect the sheep from the dog....  while 
forcing  the dog to go through certain moves 
and direction is NOT what you want to see in a herding dog!
 
You are talking about a lot injuries.......and that is just plain UGLY to  
see it that much and to that degree!!
 
 
Carolyn    _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) 
_www.Marhaven.com_ (http://www.marhaven.com/) 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 

From:  _Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx)  To: 
_Stormy435@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Stormy435@xxxxxxx)  ; _showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:29 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Herding with  Dogs stresses sheep???


Oh they stress the sheep BIG time.  Compared to many,  I've had very  
limited experience training and trial-ing, but even  w/ limited experience, 
I've  
seen <2> broken legs on sheep  (green, that have hit an enclosure, not  
being 
chased by a GSD  although it could have been), and many, many, MANY bloody  
sheep  from dogs who just want a little taste!  From what I can tell,  
ducks  
have it even worse as far as mortality  rates.

(I think the worst offenders I've seen have been the  Malinois ~ they  run 
by a sheep so fast you don't think anything  happened until you see the red 
 
line under the sheep's belly...get  out the needle and thread!!!!  Or  the 
Australian Cattle dogs  who want to grab a sheep's muzzle...do sheep have a 
 
muzzle or is  it just called a nose?...which can lead to sinus 
injury/painful   
damage and infection for the sheep.)

I have a green dog I  need to start who is very sweet, so fingers crossed 
we 
won't put  any holes in sheep, but on more than a few occasions I've been   
thankful PETA hasn't been there taking cell phone  videos!


Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating  generations of Dual Titled TC'd  Champions
visit  _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (_http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ 
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) )    


In a message dated 9/23/2009 10:15:29 P.M. Eastern  Daylight Time,  
_Stormy435@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Stormy435@xxxxxxx)  writes:

You  guys  who are herding gotta STOP IT!  Stressing those sheep  with  
your  dogs is the next no no.   (What a bunch  of   baloney!)
Stormy




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POST is Copyrighted 2009.  All material remains the property of the original 
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind 
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the 
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 

ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS 
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY 
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE 
PROSECUTED. 

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