Carolyn - Ulf has a working sheep farm and uses and occasionally breeds GSDs for that work. One of his bitches is up here and I do believe she could easily be AKC pointed. Ruth ________________________________ From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: gsdworkingline@xxxxxxxxx; ejdegen@xxxxxxx Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Herding GSDs Hi Sarah; I don't think you are really confused so much as not paying attention. The sites you attached are not "working farms"....so much as breeder/ trainers that have the facilities to train for herding and their sites are advertising that. There are many show breeders that have the same..or they take their dogs to herd at such facilities. Some of us are interested in herding, some showing..some at All Breeds, some at only Speciaties...some both, or all... and some neither. The STANDARD REMAINS THE SAME. YOU have a responsibility to learn the Standard...see it at work in a good dog..know WHY it is a good GSD according to the GSD Standard. If you are really interested in Herding or showing in Specialties or All Breeds, then go to the shows, the trials, the training facilities and always have your eyes and mind open to the Standard and the reason for it to the detail. Really watch the dogs move...know a ground covering powerful stride compared to a 'busy' stepping dog. KNOW what a good croup is, a good back, a long correct stride...a good strong working drive and a dog that can utilize its own body and mind to do the work. A good show dog can herd sheep all day long...a good GSD WANTS TO!! Personally....we have put herding titles on ONLY show dogs. They have all been quick and easy....and we have yet to have one that has problems moving the sheep. Our trainer often lets our dogs herd about 15 - 20 sheep around her ranch. * IMO The hardest part about training a good GSD to herd is teaching it to follow the AKC rules inside of an arena. Most already have the instinct to herd...they just need to learn each new AKC rule as they go for higher titles past the H.T. You can only ask so much.....and even then you need to seek your own answers. Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.marhaven.com **************************************************** On Behalf Of Sarah Minsk Subject:Re: Herding GSDsJulie Degen, Sure...here are a few.... I really like Aiko and his owner is very nice to talk too: http://www.kleinenwiese.com/Blog/ http://www.whitecloversheepfarm.com/sh-home.htm http://www.tehillahgermanshepherds.com Here is a neat site I found very educational.... http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/german-shepherd-herding/ Sarah On Sep 18, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Julie Degen wrote: > Please tell me who these numerous GSD breeders are that are breeding specifically for herding on working farms? I honestly want to know. > Julie Degen *****************************************> > On Sep 18, 2013, at 12:24 PM, Sarah Minsk Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > >> My confusion continues...case in point. Breeders tell me that the german shepherd has to have this "huge" effortless movement because it is the most efficient for herding sheep all day long. However, I have studied the herding lines extensively and have been in contact with numerous herding breeders (working farms not trial dogs) and there is a true disconnect. People say the gsd must move huge to be able to herd sheep effortlessly all day but all the real working sheepdogs (who actually work on farms and are not just titling) do not move like the showdogs! That is why I am confused. ===========================================================================POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. 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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================