The rules are ignored because a poorer specimen can win if you fudge on coat or color or other things. Maybe a dog does not have the best rear, but if you groom it just so it looks fine, maybe the front is a little off, but if you color the coat so that it looks different they can win anyway. Running the risk of starting another #$#% storm, there is one handler in every breed who uses these tricks and suddenly the tricks are standard to the show ring. It happen just a few years back in Newfy's, the Westminster BOS Newfy was trimmed and groomed to the nines. Now they all have to be. And before they were just clean to go in the ring. Now they are getting the same treatment as Poodles. Poodles however have been shown as they are not, for as long as I can remember. As for chalk, it was used on the sly for years, but now it is used liberally in every breed that is supposed to have white. And judges only make issue of it if it comes off on their hands and makes a mess. At least that is what I was told by a Papillion breeder. As a kid, clean was the way it was. And no one bathed dogs at the shows. No one owned a blower and table and brushes and shears and colored powders or other stuff. Nowadays, if you want to win, you groom. I know of no show where grooming isn't done. I have not been to a show in 6 years where there was not extensive grooming of dogs. I finally broke down and got the full load of equiptment. Now I don't have room for my kids to come with me to shows, so even if they did want to, I don't think I could fit them, yesterday was a crowded drive!!!!! Sheila BJBuie@xxxxxxx wrote: Finally -- someone else who seems to share my own view of the pure lack of ethics involved in this "sport." Why do people think it is OK to ignore the rules and dye, powder, trim in breeds where trimming isn't allowed? You want to know one reason new people don't stay? They get more than a little confused by reading and studying standards, show rules, etc., and then go to shows to see the "Big Guns," do as they please and get rewarded for it!!! Flame suit on, so flame away! Betty Johnson Tintagel From: MarcatoGSD@xxxxxxx Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:49:41 EDT Subject: Grooming - Explain please? How did it happen about that something that is against the "rules" of the standard (i.e. showing naturally) has gotten not only ignored, but rewarded? I don't get it? And if I show my dog naturally, as he should be, people act as if I'm stupid? Is it a dumb thing to do, to follow the rules? The only clipping I do on my dogs, is the clipping that every good pet owner does...the hair between the toes to keep debris from getting stuck in between the pads. Ranger goes into the ring clean...freshly bathed, powder and coat enhancement free. - Jackie Marcato Shepherds Where it's about function, not flash ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================ Sheila of Miami Mernydex GSD's Loving Obedience Dog Training --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================