I tell people who do not show but want to lear to read then watch, see the difference between the rules and the standard and what is really going on. I do know the difference and I am still here. I also know that I got a bitch with a very correct front, when fronts were not, according to the standard, really correct, and now that she is grown up and, teets tightened up, might finish, she is only competitive, as fronts have, IMHO, greatly improved. I am so glad that they have and that the standard is once again being applied to the fronts again. Now, to get her finished. sheila InquestGSD@xxxxxxx wrote: Nowadays, if you want to win, you groom. I know of no show where grooming isn't done. I have not been to a show in 6 years where there was not extensive grooming of dogs. I finally broke down and got the full load of equiptment. Now I don't have room for my kids to come with me to shows, so even if they did want to, I don't think I could fit them, yesterday was a crowded drive!!!!! Sheila Finally -- someone else who seems to share my own view of the pure lack of ethics involved in this "sport." Why do people think it is OK to ignore the rules and dye, powder, trim in breeds where trimming isn't allowed? You want to know one reason new people don't stay? They get more than a little confused by reading and studying standards, show rules, etc., and then go to shows to see the "Big Guns," do as they please and get rewarded for it!!! Flame suit on, so flame away! Betty Johnson =========================================== I think we are talking about two different issues here. One: Grooming. I've made a living grooming. Every dog should be groomed. There is no shame on having a clean dog, with clean teeth and trimmed nails that don't tear you apart when they want to be affectionate. Ask any judge if they prefer to run their hands over a clean or a dirty dog. My dogs get to the show clean, and I just have to touch up, mainly when they are out of coat, or if they get in mud or if I spill my coffee (true story). I wont be doing any undercoat removal, or "spring cleaning" on my dogs at the show site. That's just lazy. Two: The Ethics of Grooming: This is when dogs are dyed, trim (when not ok'd by the specific breed standard), lifting, flattening, the chalking, the powdering....all those extras. I groom my dogs (and cats) because I like the way the smell when clean, I like not having as much hair all over the house, and they feel special after a groom. They strut their stuff around. It is fun to take TJ to shows now, as a 10 year old, and have people admire his awesome black and red pigment. Yes, I was accused of coloring him, as I was accused of coloring BlockBuster also, he was a stunning bicolor, but no, I never did. I am not that artsy, or disciplined. Funny thing, BlockBuster had two white tipped toes.....what does that say about my coloring skills? LOL Could I dye a dog? Sure, I had people try to teach me. But what does that do for the dogs progeny? I haven't heard of anyone mastering the Clairol gene yet. Ileana Always aim to do the right thing. It may not be popular, but it will be the right thing to do. Sheila of Miami Mernydex GSD's Loving Obedience Dog Training --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================