I am seeing some dogs and bitches moving with their necks and heads up instead of forward, I am not talking slightly up , I mean like a giraffe. Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "carolyn mckenna" <carolynmckenna@xxxxxxxxx> To: "Kathaleen Strong" <inflight@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <Germanshepherds4show@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <CHGermanShepherdShowDogsList@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Cc: "showgsd" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 7:41 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: [Germanshepherds4Show] What happened to our dog's posternums? Kathaleen has hit the nail on the head ( as she usually does ) when she addresses the pushed forward fore assembly. In fact, it is most likely the pushed forward front that causes the appearance of lack of prosternum. In the pictures Kathaleen sent, notice that the head is well forward of the forelegs, the point of shoulder in line with the poll of the neck (right behind the ears ). Also note the return of upper arm (45 degree opposition to the blade ) This can only be achieved when the blade meets the upper arm at 90 degrees called for in our standard. This places the elbow directly under the top of the blade and the front is balanced. When the whole shoulder assembly is pushed forward, the prosternum is then half hidden by that faulty placement, thus causing it to seem lacking. This is addressed only briefly in our standard, but we must realize that our standard, a good one, was written five to six decades ago when the dog world was made up of people who really knew dogs, structure, and function. Thus, it was felt to be unnecessary to go into lengthy expalnations and descriptions. It is good to have people like Kathaleen to guide in what may soon become a breed "in vogue". Kathaleen Strong <inflight@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Barbara: This is a good topic. I think I mentioned I was noticing this trend this a while back - like maybe 2 years ago - only to be told I'm losing it. I was one of the first to really get excited about locked hocks - about 13 years ago - now it's something that people are working to fix. A few years ago, I got a little excited about correctly sized animals - especially bitches, now we see the trend of very large (very oversized) bitches. And yes, I agree the trend I started noticing about 2 years ago about the lack of prosternum/forechest and the forward placement of the fore-assembly, is definitely something we are seeing. However, trends are just that - 1. the general course or prevailing tendency; drift: trends in the teaching of foreign languages; the trend of events. 2. style; vogue: the new trend in women's apparel. One thing for sure - when a certain trend is being noticed by more than just myself - I think it means it's something the breeders of the breed need to start being aware of when they are choosing breeding partners. Another thing for sure - people who gripe about people noticing these trends and accuse them of fault-judgement, are forgetting that perhaps these trends are in their own backyards and they are so used to seeing them, they think the trend is correct, when it may or may not be. Trends also come in the good and the bad. One of the Good trends I've noticed over the past few years is wonderful breed type standing. But as our breed is a movement breed, ideally we should be looking for more than standing type. Personally, as a breeder, I try to breed animals that mirror what my ideal of a dog is, and of course I try very hard to remain true to what the standard calls for. Unfortunately, with every roll of the dice, it's a gamble, sometimes it works out and sometimes not. As far as prosternum and forequarter, I think I've got a good start when Inflight reentered the breeding game - Marcus is really proving to be excellent in giving his get lovely substance, prosternum, type, excellent coordination with very good fore-assemblies. Marcus Kids: Inflight's Singin' In the Rain (at 11 months) - the next picture is Rodney at 3 months Followed by the repeats of the above puppy at the same age - I think we have prosternums, forehands, motion, bone, type, and wonderful temperament. But I'm being realistic - they're puppies, so we'll see. Inflight's Total Eclipse - owned by Kim McNamara, Georgia Inflight's Time to Tango Inflight's The Shadow Knows Inflight's Trouble With A T So, while trends towards things which are not necessarily correct according to the standard continue to occur, good breeders will stay true to the 4 R's of breeding: ü Remember what is ideal, understanding that recognizing their dog's faults is probably just as important as recognizing it's virtues - especially when it comes time to breed that animal - it's not fault judgment, it's being a smart breeder. ü Remain strongly individualistic (as in using outside opinions as information only, not letting someone else rule their breeding program) ü Read the Standard over and over ü Research, research, research At least that's what's worked for me. Kathaleen __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (11) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Links | Database | Polls | Members Notice. forwarding of any information that appears on the German Shepherd 4 Show list is not allowed. Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Sitebuilder Build a web site quickly & easily with Sitebuilder. New web site? Drive traffic now. Get your business on Yahoo! search. Popular Y! Groups Is your group one? Check it out and see. . __,_._,___ --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. 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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================