[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: [Germanshepherds4Show] Shoulders-Moving Picture of Bull son
- From: ANN SCHULTZ <edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ann Mariano <brittaleahnasa@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:18:50 -0800 (PST)
Great post, Shelia. Talking about Bull, I bred to him three times, because I
felt that he was a great producer, and gave great attitude, athleticism, and
temperment. I did not get lifty from ANY of his progeny. I am including a
picture of Ch Mechanical Bull of Edan(OFA hips, elbows, heart, thyroid) , who
is a Bull son, Many breeders and judges consider him an awesome and correct
mover. He finished with four majors, all under specailty judges, from Puppy and
Bred By classes. Lindenhill <lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: ann, I am not
the "structure" person in the family. But I will share what I think. I think
there is just as good shoulder now than 20 years ago, and in some cases better.
There is such a lack of good critques from the past. GSD Reviewed sometimes
gives a couple critiques. I think the problem has more to do with the fact that
an excellent shoulder is super hard to get, easy to lose, and new people have
trouble "seeing" correct shoulder. I still have this
problem. What helped me was Ed Barrit telling me while watching dogs in
movement, do not watch how far out the front foot goes. Watch where the front
foot lands when it hits the ground. Doing that in slow-mo while watching videos
of dogs is a real eye-opener. I think my GVX lily has the perfect shoulder and
shoulder opening. I don't think many would ding her except for her bigness
"which she measures in the standard." I bring up my own bitch because one, she
is a GVX, finished in three shows and many best of breeds under "shou
lder men/women" judges. I also bring her up, because now retired she is part of
the history of our breed. I think it behooves people who want to understand
structure is to stand by one of our best breeder/judges men and women and watch
a class or two with them. No one ever told me when I started to "leave them
alone" and I still sit with Bob Eaton every chance I get so he can tell me I am
wrong, wrong, wrong. The worst thing to do is see a picture of the dog and say
my that's a nice shoulder. Until you watch them in movement, you don't know.
Her brother Hayabusa (han) 3x select and MV, does not have the shoulder of his
sister, but he is totally correct and balanced. Is that why he did not go GV?
No, Scoop was just slightly better those three years (yes, Kevin and
barb--slightly), and Han has a wavy ear. I bring him up because Dave Rinke
includes him in his judges seminar that he gives--which is a great place to go
at the national--whether you wish to be a judge or not. As he
says, we all have to be judges to be breeders. I think if you look at all the
selects male and females pedigrees over five years or 10 years you will see a
pattern, and boing! you will develop your own philosophy. I would also talk to
the Graingers about GV Bull. Because they published "put a little lift in your
breeding program" I feel comfortable in saying that he was dinged because his
front was lifty or lofty. Did that stop him from going GV. No, Bull was an
awesome animal--very well deserving--his pedigree is interesting because the
pattern I am asking you to look for is right there. I will not bring up my
opinions on more dogs because they haven't been discussed publicly and I feel
their owners, breeders should discuss them here. The best to you, Sheila at
Lindenhill
----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Mariano
To: showgsd-l
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:56 AM
Subject: [Germanshepherds4Show] Shoulders
Hi.
I know when alot of the people have been in the breed 20+
years, and it seems there is a consensus that shoulders are
not what they use to be. I know from my own experience
with seeing some of my mentors old dogs in video and
pictures, I have to agree. From my own research his line
can only be found in 5th/6th Generations. If someone had
his line in the earlier generations, and still breeding, I
would love to see some dogs. Can the people who have been
in the breed for some time, talk about this subject. Maybe
share with the newbies which lines did/still do carry
correct shoulders? Maybe share some pictures/links of dogs
who do have a correct shoulder lay back. I think this
would be educational for all, since as I said before (and I
know many have also) shoulders just do not seem to be what
I have seen in the past (through videos of course :))
Ann Marie
www.geocities.com/amarigermanshepherds/Amari.html
Home of Ch Fairway's Leah v Nadelwald TC
& her daughters R/BIF Ch Amari's Ava Gardner
& in the wings her daughter Amari's Beware of Foxy Roxy
(pointed)
and Breeder/Owner of Leah's son
Amari's Bandit of Broadcreek (9 points @ 7 months)
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Ann
www.edangsd.com
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Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
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PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
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