[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: German dogs
- From: "Liane Fossland" <lfossland@xxxxxxx>
- To: <falkrigia@xxxxxxx>, <EJDegen@xxxxxxx>, <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:12:56 -0700
I agree. This is a good post giving facts - and no bashing.
Excellent info.
Lee F.
-----Original Message-----
From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of falkrigia@xxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 5:53 AM
To: EJDegen@xxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: German dogs
Good post Julie..........and accurate.
We have straight german/ czech working line dogs and combinations of
american show and german working and american show and german show
lines along with our straight american show line dogs. There are
definitely differences in all of them - in body type, movement and
pigment. My personal pigment favorite is the black sable or 'grey' so
often seen in the working line dogs especially when coupled with a more
american style body type and movement which i feel is actually found
more often in the working lines than in the show lines though there are
certainly good and bad in both. I love my solid black czech/ german
working lines male and he's attractive structurally also but some of
his littermates defintiely do not have his pretty structure though they
all have great attitudes.
I'm definitely a fan of the black and red pigment also but even that
can get boring when the entire show consists of the exact same
pigmentation since you rarely see any other color in the german
conformation ring. ;-)
Variety is a good thing as long as it does not take away from basic
type or the ability of the dog to function as it was intended to.
I think your comments on the roached back are right on target also.
Gene Workman
Lynda Bragg-Workman
www.falkrigiashepherds.com
www.thecraftywoodchuck.com
Appaloosa Acres - an Equine and Canine facility
Old Fella Burke County Animal Rescue - training director
"I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good thing,
therefore, that I can do or any kindness that I can show to any fellow
creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer nor neglect it, for I
shall not pass this way again". du Mabillier (1773-1855)
-----Original Message-----
From: EJDegen@xxxxxxx
To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 9:36 pm
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] German dogs
I think many American GSD people don't understand that there are
multiple
types of "German" or "Import" GSDs.
The dogs that you all saw on the you tube video are German SHOWLINE
dogs.
They do get a working title, but they are not WORKING dogs. Many of
them
do the bare minimum to get their title and that's it. They only have
to
pass each level of Schutzhund one time to get a title (and it can be
at their
home field with known judges/friends).
The majority of true working line GSDs in Germany, the ones that are
50X
Schutzhund 3 (meaning they've entered shown and passed x number of
times in a
trial), do not have the extreme roached back or movement that many of
the
"showline" dogs in the video have. Therefore, since the working line
dogs
don't have that extreme back, it only makes sense that the roached back
is
NOT beneficial for the sport of Schutzhund. It is my worthless opinion
that the roached back came into favor to try and show "power" and
underreach.
The dogs lean so hard into their collars and pull SO hard, that is
rewarded...and it's supposed to show "drive". Of course, it got
exaggerated....just like everything does!
I am not saying that there aren't working line dogs with a roached
back,
and I'm not saying that there aren't show line dogs that also do a
spectacular job working and are great Schutzhund dogs. I'm just
talking
majorities
here.
When I went to the Bundessiegerprufung (German Schutzhund
championships), I
saw a WHOLE DIFFERENT kind of animal than I saw at the SV show. There
were things that I liked better about them (the working line dogs)
than the
showline dogs and there were things that I like better about the
showline
dogs. There are things that I like better about the American showline
dogs,
too! I could list my preferences on each, but doubt anyone really
cares
;-)
Julie Degen
"A well-balanced German Shepherd has a title on both ends!"
_www.caissonkennels.com_ (http://www.caissonkennels.com)
In a message dated 10/1/2010 3:01:15 A.M. Korea Standard Time,
hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
From: Hickoryhill <hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: P.R./ bad backs & rears & color
I am not sure I agree. However if front and rear weren't balanced I
could
see how the dog could look awkward. when I refer to balance of front
to
rear, I do not mean just rear angulation, but the angle of the croup
and
whole rear assembly which includes how far the animal gets under
itself to
thrust itself forward, pushes off and completely opens up the rear as
well as
the shoulder and elbow, as if to reach out and grab the ground in
front of
it. Invision the greyhound image on the bus, fully open front and
rear.
This image represents a full gallop. Since we are on the topic of
motion,
here is another observation. The greyhound has a short, slightly
overcast
back,again designed for speed. Like the greyhound, the German imports
are now
more square with a short overcast back for speed. Import dogs are now
bred
to hit the sleeve hard and fast. This style of import dog is a
departure
from the dogs that were brought to the US in the late 40's, 50's and
into the
60's. Then the
GSD was still primarily a herding dog. The German's adjusted their
breeding programs when Schutzhund became the primary focus,probably
observing
that
dogs with shorter backs and a more square body style could attain
greater
bursts of speed needed for schutzhund. Herding dogs are typically
more
rectangular. Think of other sheep herding breeds and you will observe
that
most have rectangular body styles suited for trotting long distances.
The
GSD's ideal body style is a slightly longer in overall body length
than tall,
and the breed should still have a shorter hard back. The body length
does
not come from a back that is too long or a loin that is too long.
Although
American breeders have deviated here and there within the standard,
for the
most part we have maintained the overall proportions of a herding dog.
To
me, the working import GSD is no different than the working lab, or
setter.
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POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any
kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of
the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and
its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions
expressed in any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
============================================================================
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
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