Carolyn wrote: I guess I'm not very articulate as I thought all this is exactly what I said? A dog is totally useless in many circumstances if it is gun shy.....that's why they should be tested by the Breeder no matter what. You need to KNOW what you have and temperament tests are not always easily available. I am not talking about "preparing" a dog for the Temperament Test as it appears that it was taken by some. I am talking about the responsiblity of every Breeder knowing what they have! Carolyn: Maybe what I'm trying to point out is that a lot of breeders DO NOT regularly gun test their dogs. I know I don't - But I also live in the country and whenever there's a chance of fireworks, the yahoos around here shoot them off. No one has a problem here. They bark at the noise. Maybe I'm missing the passion in your post that we do something at the Parent Club level to make it pretty clear to breeders that sound sensitivity is completely unacceptable in the breed. The National Best of Breed competition is the perfect place to showcase that we do not have a problem. Maybe I'm not hearing in your post that you think that any tool to help ferret this out, and using the National by adding a 2-3 minute evaluation to each group to is a good idea because it will show the audience which animals "may" have an issue with sound, so they can have that information before they breed into that line of dogs. Maybe I am hearing in your post that you agree that sound sensitivity is a problem, but it's not the problem of the Parent Club. Maybe I am hearing in your post that you believe that this isn't a big problem. And maybe it isn't -- but an addition of a gun test would at least prove that it isn't and won't be a problem in the future. Maybe I am the only one that thinks an entire TC before the Specials can be awarded a Select is over the top, but a simple gun test will help the breed immediately because those dogs who are unable to recover quickly from this simple test should not be awarded highly. Before everyone jumps on me -- "The dogs will be conditioned" Yes I am fully aware of it -- but I can also point this out -- What is the likelihood that a handler is going to waste a handling slot in specials at the National on a dog that is not going to pass a simple gun test? What is the likelihood that someone is going to waste thousands of dollars, and hundreds of hours getting a dog ready to show at the National with a gun test, when their sound sensitive dog may blow its cookies? I've only ever had 2 animals that were sound sensitive - one puppy that had brain damage from her stupid mother breaking out of the whelping room and whelping puppies on a cold October morning and when I went out at 6am, there was this stone cold but alive puppy. I put her down because she became completely unmanageable around any unusual situation and any noise made her start to climb the fences. No one else in the litter has any sound sensitivities. The other animal was an animal I introduced into the kennel and I had no idea he was sound sensitive when I got him, and I really don't think his breeders did either. This dog had traveled by plane, had been to many different shows. Imagine my surprise when I had him at an auction and a big truck started up - and the dog lost it. This big strapping dog afraid of a truck. Everytime he came anywhere near *any* loud sound, he'd lose it. I then realized that the dog had a sound problem. During the first week of Fourth of July that I had him, the dog spent his nights in a crate. He died from mesenteric torsion 2 days after his second Fourth of July here. I personally believe that this sound sensitivity was in direct correlation to subsequent gut problem. I thought the Parent Club was responsible for the betterment of the breed. From the Bylaws: Objects. The objects of the Club shall be: (a) To encourage, promote, and improve the breeding of quality purebred German Shepherd Dogs, to educate the fancy, and to do all possible to bring the natural qualities of the German Shepherd Dog to perfection (b) To urge members and breeders to accept that standard of the breed, as approved by the American Kennel Club, as the only standard of excellence by which the German Shepherd Dog shall be judged (c) To do all in its power to protect and advance the interests of the breed by encouraging sportsmanlike competition at dog shows, obedience trials, and tracking tests (d) To aid with every possible means in demonstrating the German Shepherd Dog's conspicuous ability as a companion, war, Red Cross, police, drug and explosive detection, security, herding, search and rescue dog, and guide dog for the blind A gun test won't achieve all the above items, but it sure will show that the GSDCA is working towards its own objectives, especially a, b, and d; provided of course, that the AKC can be made to see, that this test will not hinder judging, but will be of benefit to the breed as a whole. But that's just my take on it. Kathaleen ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Kathaleen Strong - Inflight Kennels Reg'd ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. 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