[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: GSD 'walking' judges/ eh?
- From: "Carolyn" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <rightdogphoto@xxxxxxxxx>, <culzeans1@xxxxxxx>, <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <Lacy340@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:21:34 -0800
I'm getting confused. Are we talking about TROTTING at a SLOW speed? ( no
problem. )
OR making the dog WALK?? Or are we talking about "dredging" like a sled dog
into the leash?
There's a huge difference and some of these posts are not clear......?
Regarding BOSS.....He was a difficult dog to show .....he always wanted full
control of the leash.
( HMMMMmmmmm ......sounds a bit like our new Grand Victrix <G> )
Frank was made to leave and sit in the stands and I was told to not double at
all but to just get his
ears when he was being posed on the upper side. That was the only way Jerry
could get him to
gait at an easier speed. He went Grand Victor with almost no doubling at all.
He had the heart to
go all day until he was with us. His gait never changed once he made his
first hard driving pass and
Frank moved way away. He slowed on that corner where he last saw Frank on
every pass and
looked up for him and he picked up speed toward me after he made the turn to go
up the side
where I stood.
However......
He "argued" with Jerry on how fast he wanted to make that long pass to see if
Frank had returned
before he slowed at the end to look for him every time, before he turned to my
direction.
You can see the leash see-saw a bit as Jerry directed him to slow down
But he NEVER WALKED!! When he pulled too hard he could lift occasionally as
he already carried
a high wither and his head was always "up" and alert as he looked for us
......and to hold him up or
back would not work. He was a loose lead dog. He never took a good photo
posed because he
balked at having the choke up under his chin. He was not a dog to be held up
or back. He never
made it easy for Jerry ....... and Jerry always made it look easy!
When put at a walk on a leash....... most of our dogs will pace......including
BOSS.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ruth Scheubler To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; culzeans1@xxxxxxx ;
showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Lacy340@xxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:25 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: GSD
'walking' judges
the dogs inthe German ring are not "choked back" as they do not wear choke
chains. They want the dog to pull hard into the lead during the fast walking
stage. It tires the dog, tests drive, and if you have a long legged handler and
a nicely balanced animal that can trot at a slow speed because it is correctly
balanced, and you happen to be in the front, you can totally destroy the dogs
behind you while yours trots for long periods of time.
But I do seem to remember Jerry and Boss doing much the same thing - once
Boss got to the front, Jerry was able to keep him trotting at a speed the dogs
behind him could not handle. I was very impressed.
Ruth
Carolyn <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If a judge wants a German Shepherd Dog to "WALK" they are typically going
to get a dog that
DOES pull against the leash in frustration as it wants to trot and has been
trained to trot at the end
of the leash! It is a TROTTING Breed!
It just makes a frustrated dog that wants to do what it has been trained and
asks a frustrated handler
to hold back and control a dog in a way that has nothing to do with
suspension or an extended trot?
If a Judge wants them to slow down....they should ask for that along with a
loose leash....but I have
never understood any reason to ask them to WALK unless it's to frustrate the
dog, handler & owner.
At a walk the GSD is often being held up and back so he cannot use the front
enough to get it out
of the way of the "over reach" of the rear that has been discussed....and
will PACE to compensate.
This is just a walk that is controlled by a handler......and it does not show
anything good or bad
about the dog's actual gait. In my opinion this ruins the ability to actually
judge the dog's gait
in any direction .....and IMO just makes the dog out of sync. What's the
point??
They can ALL walk .......but being held up and back by a handler in the small
ring makes them very
frustrated and out of sync. Why would a judge want to see a dog choked back
to a walk with
a choke chain up under their chin like a Dobie to control them?
I'm sure this will start a small war........but it sure seems pointless to
me...........
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: To: ; ;
Sent: November 27, 2007 12:56 PMSubject: Re: GSD judges
> Good description Carolyn.? Not like the all breed judges this weekend >
which had the dogs?
WALK AND I MEAN WALK?around the ring twice and then let > them go into a
trot.? You try to
hold an 82 lb male back when he knows he > is supposed to pull out.? It was
ugly.?
Where do these judges get this > ring procedure.
>
> Original MessageFrom: Carolyn > To: culzeans1@xxxxxxx;
showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:01 pm > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L
] Re: GSD judges
>
> Hi Pam;
> For Judges to put up the "best dog" period.....they absolutely MUST know >
the> Standard!
For you to> show the best dog ......you also need to know the Standard. The
Standard > on
> the German Shepherd> Dog REQUIRES and explains the powerful thrust of the
rear drive in good
> detail......under GAIT:
> 'General Impression'.
> i.e. "The hindquarter's deliver, through the back, a powerful forward >
thrust> which slightly lifts the
> whole animal and drives the body forward. REACHING FAR UNDER, and > PASSING
the> imprint
> left by the front foot"............
> "The overeach of the hindquarter usually necessitates one hind foot passing
outside and the other
> hind foot passing inside the track of the forefeet, and such action is >
not> faulty unless the locomotion
> is crabwise"............
> This is a direct quote from the German Shepherd Dog Standard.
Explain > how the STANDARD can be "incorrect".......??
It is after all what makes this Breed what it is.....
> Linda Shaw's articles are not the Standard. You need to spend your time
studying the actual GSD
> Standard and not someone's incorrect illustrations or opinions. This
powerful> driving thrust off the
> rear of the German Shepherd Dog is part of what sets it apart from all
other Breeds.
> For those of us who Breed according to the Standard and have watched the >
gait in> function while
the> dogs herd......it is a beautiful powerful, athletic result of the
correct> construction of an efficient trotting
> working breed......and it is beautifully described in our GSD Standard.
> I am not at all offended at your "opinion"......but just want to remind >
you it> is only an opinion as compared
> to our actual Standard.> You are correct though in respect to saying we
need more Judges who
> actually> read and understand> the Standard. But we also need more Breeders
and Exhibitors with the
> same> responsibility to knowing> the Standard. I wholly appreciate your
great love and respect for this
> amazing> Breed and feel exactly> the same way.
I just want to remind you that they can be what the > Standard> requires with
the awesome> rear drive that propels them forward with the atheletic powerful >
thrust....and> still be willing to lay their> life on the line
for you.
ALL the details of the Standard are what makes > this> Breed unique and
perfect.
> Thanks for your post.......it is a good reminder to all of us to brush up >
on our> Standard occasionally.
> Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> www.Marhaven.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: culzeans1@xxxxxxx To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday,
> November 26,> 2007 7:46 AMSubject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] judges
>
>
> We need more judges who actually read and understand the standard and PUT
> up
> the best dog,period.?The dog should be balanced, nothing over done in any
> area.
> The shepherd movement is one of grace, power and stamina. Anything over
> done
> detracts from that. To over reach is incorrect with or without crabbing.
> The
> more I learn, the more I learn, the more I learn and the more I learn....?
> I
> have been studying Kathy Shaw's articles and I am amazed at how many
> different
> "types" of shepherds there are and not suprising is the arguing over who
> has the
> "right" or "correct" dog according to the standard. If you look at what
> she
> illustrates according to the standard, most of us have a dog that fits
> into the
> standard, more or less, some much less than more. It really comes down to
> what
> we want our shepherds to do. If all you want is a dog with a great side
> gait,
> well that is what you get. Over reaching accomplishes that. I want a dog
> that
> more than anything can do everything, even go int
> o
> the water and retrieve that bird if I ask them to. And to accomplish
> that I
> feel I must have a dog right down the middle of the standard. Nothing over
> done,
> no over reaching, no under reaching,?no toe dragging, no hock walking, no
> cow
> hock,no roach back, no to short stiffled, no to short or to long back, no
> to
> long or to short neck,no block heads, no snipey heads,?good feet and
> pasterns,
> temperament suited to adapt to what ever I ask of them. I know many people
> have
> been in this breed way longer than I have, have a billion more champions
> than I
> do(because I have none yet), feel offended that I even have an opinion,
> but I
> put my love of this breed up against anyones and I will stand toe to toe
> with
> you because my life has been saved by this breed and I will stand for the
> best
> in them because it is no less than what this noble incorruptable breed
> would do
> for me. I love reading this list because I see here people who have
> differences
> of what our breed should look like, but w
> ho
> have a love for this breed as I do. I have been to shows and been
> treated
> poorly by GSD people and I have been to specialties and had such a
> wonderful
> time, granted they thought my dogs were not "extreme" enough but still
> people
> were pleasant and helpful. I love that the breed I love so?much has so
> many
> people looking after its best interests. Maybe we just need judges who
> feel the
> same. Pam
>
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POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
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POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
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