thanks for the lively discussion. Its interesting to note that some of the things we speak of in GSDs are not "standard protocol" in my second breed (Smooth Fox Terriers). While I will do a VC and BC to make sure all is well, most stud dog owners DO NOT AI nor do they ship semen. They also feel that if the dog doesn't breed naturally, there are issues. Just recently, I bred my Hannah to a well known stud named Mac. While I was a bit early for the breeding it was "Day 10". The stud dog owner did not want to hear about "days".. he said, "she still looks a little dark in her discharge and not quite swollen". I came prepared with my AI kit and asked if we wanted to try. He promptly told me, "NO! Put that thing away!!!. If he wont breed on his own, he doesn't get to breed." Went home, waited a couple of days, and sure enough she started flagging and standing. Back to the stud dog owners, 10 mins, had her tied.2 days later, she tied again naturally. Now according to my "dates" this was day 18 and day 20. and technically she should be going out of season. But according to the "dogs", she was ready then. The stud dog owner says, in Smooths they will rarely AI a dog, they should breed naturally and if not, take that as a sign that the bitch shouldn't be bred. I thought it odd that with all the advances we have made in dog breeding a simple collection and insemination could "solve" (note use of quotations) any breeding issues. Mike ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================