[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Fwd: Letter of the Law V. Spirit of the Law...long
- From: "" <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "barbmarkh@xxxxxxx" <barbmarkh@xxxxxxx>, caggra@xxxxxxx, dgshwpromo@xxxxxxxxx, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:19:15 -0500
A pick up..come on. I heard the same bitch was handled by same handler in
Sacramento in early April, got a second in the 12-18 class. could this have
been yet another "pick -up" Also explain how it is alleged that the judge
was asked to not do the futurity, because said handler had 8 other animals
to show including your maturity winner, but judge opted to do the
assignment anyhow. Better off to let this one drop. C
hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Steve and Christine Grainger
WWW.HICKORYHILLGSD.COM
> [Original Message]
> From: <barbmarkh@xxxxxxx>
> To: <caggra@xxxxxxx>; <dgshwpromo@xxxxxxxxx>; <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 6/12/2007 2:05:02 PM
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Fwd: Letter of the Law V. Spirit of the
Law...long
>
>
>
> Why not just skip that weekend 3 3/4 months ago? Why not get
> nother handler or a junior as Sheila stated. I am not saying that this
is what
> appened, but it gives the appearance that both judge and handler rolled
the
> ice and knew what they were doing. That, to me, is the overlying
issue.Â
>
> I don't have direct knowlegde - but what I heard was that this was like a
ring side pick up and the handler in question had no knowledge that the
bitch that he was asked to handle was co-owned by Paul and Jennifer - not
until some time later did he learn about the co-ownership - Paul and
Jennifer were not their, doubling or training - it truly is in name only -
- don't shot the messanger that is what I heard . . . Remember I am not
justifing -I am just trying to get all the facts out . .
>
> Barb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caggra@xxxxxxx
> To: dgshwpromo@xxxxxxxxx; Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 1:17 pm
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Fwd: Letter of the Law V. Spirit of the
Law...long
>
>
>
> I like a lot of what you have said Sheila. I can see this from a few
angles.Â
>
> First of all, no you cannot legislate honesty & intregrity. You are
right.Â
> owever, the AKC is very very VERY clear that it must do it's best to
avoid any
> ppearance of impropriety.  So, no a few days or weeks or months for
that
> atter is not going to guarantee honesty & integrity. A judge will
either be
> onest or they won't. Some judges could judge dogs presented by handlers
that
> howed for them last weekend and would do a fine job. On the other
hand, some
> udges could judge dogs presented by handlers, friends etc. more than 2
years
> go and still not do an honest job. I like to think that MOST of our
judges are
> he good ones I mentioned first. Â
> However, AKC and our parent club has a responsibility to maintain an
overall
> ppearance of fairness in our sport. We cannot afford to have judges,
handlers,
> r exhibitors purposely and intentionally playing around with the given
> uidelines. That jeapordizes the integrity of our entire system and it
reflects
> oorly on all.Â
> I do not think that any dog's wins should be jeapordized from the
discussed
> ituation. I doubt that the owners of the winning dogs went in knowing
and
> urposely gambled with this rule.Â
> owever, I do think that rules are rules. I believe that in the end the
> esponsibilty (as far as AKC is concerned) falls on a judge to say to a
handler
> alking into their ring "I am sorry but you are not permitted to exhibit
to me
> oday".   I don't know all the specifics about when the handler
showed for the
> udge, except to hear it was 8 days short of 4 months. Was that show
really
> hat important to risk violating that rule? Even if it is a silent
> o-ownership. Why not just skip that weekend 3 3/4 months ago? Why not
get
> nother handler or a junior as Sheila stated. I am not saying that this
is what
> appened, but it gives the appearance that both judge and handler rolled
the
> ice and knew what they were doing. That, to me, is the overlying
issue.Â
> If we say 8 days is ok. What about next time 10 or 17 days? Then
> 0-something....Then, why have a rule to begin with. Integrity &
sportmanship
> s everything in a sport.  We are at a cross-road as it is with
entries, new
> eople etc.  We don't want to lose anyone for any reason.Â
> JMO,
> eff Pyle
>
> ----Original Message-----
> rom: sheila lieberman <dgshwpromo@xxxxxxxxx>
> o: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ent: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:09 pm
> ubject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Fwd: Letter of the Law V. Spirit of the
Law...long
>
>
> ersonally this affect me NOT. But I will say the following any way!!!!
>
> First I know judges that are careful about where they take assignments to
> oid handlers they know they want to use, or to not use handlers who will
show
> ere they will judge. These same people want to wait 6 months so that
people
> nnot even begin to worry about this issue.
>
> The boundary is ultimately arbitrary, no matter what any one thinks is
enough
> not enough. This ought to be a great way for new handlers and juniors
to get
> ndling jobs from judges!!!!
>
> However, 8 days is also arbitrary in the long run. And if the dog was so
> eat a dog, and not bred or connected to the judge in the ring, then the
win
> ould be left alone.
>
> And besides, the man is sick. This can wait until he can discuss this
> mself.
> sheila
> rbmarkh@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> ----Original Message-----
> om: barbmarkh@xxxxxxx
> : edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> nt: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:40 am
> bject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Letter of the Law V. Spirit of the Law...long
> his is a Great Post - BUT - I have to say that I see this more as "Spirit
of
> e Law" -Ã? The 4 month rule is to help people see that the judge remain
> partial - now is a judge impartial at 3 months and 15 days - or 4 months
and
> days - after all the AKC says at least 4 months - so now are we talking
4 1/2
> nths or what?Ã? Ã? Also - I doubt that Paul and Jerry set out to break
any
> les - The original animal in question I heard is co-owned in name only
with
> e Roots - the main owner books all the shows and pays all the bills - so
the
> ots didn't hire or employ Jerry -Ã? perhaps Paul didn't think it was
right to
> ny Jerry the ability to show at a "Futurity" - that like a National are
> fferent for exhibitors and handlers (it must be special - they charge us
more
> an usual - right?)Ã? On the front of the entry form - the only place
these
> les are referrenced - it says they request adherence - not that one must
> here to the 4 month rule . . .
> o explaination makes this over 4 months - but perhaps - if we think about
it -
> might could soften our retoric on the subject - - after all I thought
the
> eed limit analogy very similar -
> uestion - if this is a santioned match - and all AKC rules are to be
followed -
> hy wasn't the complaint filled at the show and handled by a Bench Show
> mmittee - like as soon as Jerry walked in the ring the first time - It
clearly
> ys that that is the correct procedure - That would of ended the question
on
> at day - Now - is it being handled by the ethics committee?Ã? I heard
that
> eryone had paid the $50.00 - if its the ethics committee - then why did
the
> ow Chair have the complaints?
> nquiring minds are interested
> rb
> ----Original Message-----
> om: Edwin Hill
> : freelist
> nt: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:26 am
> bject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Letter of the Law V. Spirit of the Law...long
> Years and years ago during one of my "criminal justice" classes at San
Jose
> te Univ. we discussed the difference between the "Spirit of the law" and
the
> tter of the law"...let me use examples to make my point ( Basu and other
> adians pay close attention)...say you are driving one or two miles over
the
> ed limit, well you have actually broken the law and you can be rightfully
> en a speeding ticket...but that's not going to happen because you have
not
> ken the "Spirit of the Law".....now let's say ( and this would never
happen
> any of you guys) you get pulled over for Drunk Driving....the legal limit
is
> and you blow a .09....you only went over by a little bit....that's
right,
> guessed it, you're going straight to jail because some laws for obvious
> sons must be strictly enforced......I don't know what exactly happened at
the
> urity in Washington last month, I was not there. I was told that the
"four
> th handling rule'' came into question and was
> ssibly violated...well if this is in fact true, to me this is like the
"drunk
> ving" law. The letter of the law should be enforced. The appearance of
> rness should never be sacrificed. Whatever the penalties are for breaking
> s rule should be enforced fairly and quickly. None of us are perfect, ...
Dr.
> l said...if you choose the behavior, you choose the consequence....FB
>
> -------------------------------
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spyware
> otection.
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Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
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