Hi Mike; Very valid points. A lot of that was discussed and considered when I first brought up the idea. The Board of course was very cognizant of the possibility of abuse of that system and that is one reason it has taken a while to even get a motion to try to implement this idea. This is why I brought up the 'point' of the Weimaraner members being able to enter all their Regions.........SURELY we can handle TWO. <G> There never was any intention of suggesting all nine on my part. <G> Nor was Amy's request for nine. Consider....... *. The ONE dog though entered in TWO Futurities can only be shown in ONE! ( I fully agree......nine is just plain over-kill )( I believe the intent of that motion for all nine ( ? ) was to give the Futurity Committee some room to work out what they felt was best for the future of the Futurities. ) ******************************************* *. The dog owner would have a ten day or one week period PRIOR to the FIRST Futurity entered to notify that Futurity that they would not compete that dog at that Futurity once they knew which one they would compete in. The Committee will work out whether by phone, e-mail or letter of intent. Under NO circumstance would they be able to attend a Futurity and look around and realize they would be better off going to the next one for a win. Possibly they would have to check the double entered dog in as competing 1 to 1/2 hr. before the show begins.........? ******************************************* *. The only "possible" exception to consider, might be if someone traveled to a Futurity and upon arrival discovered there was a judge change......and "possibly" the Committee might consider they would have a half hour BEFORE that Futurity to officially back out. I'm sure many of us have driven for hours to a show only to discover the next morning there is a Judge change. That in itself is frustrating enough, but PARTICULARLY if you cannot exhibit under that judge......and that is your Futurity for that dog for that year. ****************************************** *. ANY abuse of this system would disallow the dog owner from exhibiting in any Futurity for a considerable period of time. i.e. the dog showing up at a Futurity and "pulling" because of the competition......once they show up with that double entered dog.....that will be THE FUTURITY they show in if no prior notification has been given regarding the dog double entered not being shown there. Showing in two Futurities......a long term punishment for both owner.......and handler possibly? IMO this will take common sense but is reasonably easy to work out. It's just a matter of those that do double enter a dog take more than usual responsibility for informing the Club of their intent a set time BEFORE the show .......and NEVER the day of the show unless there is Judge change complications.... .and even if that is allowed, then there should be a set time frame just like moving up a Champion. If anything....I think it will be a difficult decision for some handlers to make that committment to one dog and owner and not easily or randomly done. There could be a form of a specific color for dogs double entered......and a specific letter made up for the "declaratiion of intent" to be sent or e-mailed.........? All food for thought.....but worth consideration IMO. Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com I like the concept of being able to enter more than 1 Futurity...2 as the ideal, 9 seems to be over kill, although I cannot imagine anyone entering 9 regions. My concern is, that where the rationale for doing so is based on valid concerns as noted in Carolyn's comments, at the same time we need to think of how the changes could lead to abuse, such that a relative few gain an unfair competitive advantage. Being able to show the dogs when they are at or most likely at their best under the judge most likely to appreciate that dog's attributes, should be the intent.being able to size up the competition and go elsewhere where one believes they might have a more competitive (as Ann referenced), is a valid concern. If we are going to put the changes in place, I would like them to be conditional / conditioned on the basis that changes can be added/deleted/fine tuned on a year to year basis, unless changes are voted in as permanent by x% of the Board. This would give us an opportunity to determine what works, what doesn't and make adjustments without being forced to maintain that which we might discover, does not provide for outcomes as intended. Although it would entail a considerable amount of extra work, if one was to enter multiple futurities, I would like a requirement that "an intent to show" be declared for the show one would chose to participate in, say a week prior to the actual show date. This declaration could be by phone, e-mail or whatever might be considered a valid, sensible tool while minimizing the additional work load. This would minimize pre-competition assessment on the day of the show, free up handlers, etc..but I would still allow for a change or cancellation of the "declaration of intent to show", if there was a last minute judging change. The bottom line is, let's work to improve a system which allows and encourages maximum participation, maintains a n even playing field and at the end of the day, provides the best opportunity to fairly assess the quality of the animals shown. Mike TRAFALGAR GSDS LTD. TRAFALGARgsds@xxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ Msg: #11 in digest From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Futurities/ long Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 10:52:20 -0700 I've been off the List for over two months.......so I know I'm coming into this late......but hopefully I'm not stepping out of line to give some input in response to some of the posts below. The idea of being able to enter TWO Futurities was my idea 4 years ago when I was still on the Futurity Committee..... My reasons for suggesting that an Exhibitor be allowed to enter their dogs in TWO Futurities is very simple..... ----- Original Message ----- ************************************************************************ -----Original Message----- From: edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: holly@xxxxxxxxxxx: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:58 pm Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Futurities I agree with you. The people that can afford to will book handlers for multiple futurities, leaving others without a handler or not knowing until the last minute. People can come in and if the competition looks tough, pull out and go to another futurity with lesser quality. The handlers win, the breeders lose on this one and I was under the impression that futirities are a breeder shpwcase. My mistake! Ann www.edangsd.com ****************************************************************** ===========================================================================POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ =========================================================================== =========================================================================== POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ =========================================================================== ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================