DM is very different. I realize this might be an attempt a humor (but I'm
not finding either chemo or DM humorous).
With dogs that are symptomatic for DM the first test is a cheek swab. If
a dog comes back at risk you can still test for the other things that can
mimic DM, some are treatable.
It's only at necropsy that you have confirmation of DM.
Yes, roughly 4-6% of the tests are yielding wonky results. (Again, see the
peer reviewed and published data I posted earlier, most of those NOT our
breed).
It's only with additional testing and research that we might be able to
have an even better test. That said, a 4-6% fail rate is still enough for me
to be certain one of every breeding pair here is a clear. Understand I'm
not saying remove carriers or dogs at risk from the gene pool. Those dogs
can still be utilized and bred to a clear.
If we start collecting data like other breeds we may also be able to
determine if there are "triggers" that cause the onset of symptoms. So far
the
Corgi people have been looking into anesthesia and vaccination past a
certain age. Again, I really think other breeds are light years ahead.
I watched my sister deal with DM w/ her GSD and it's horrible. Dog
diagnosed at almost 8, PTS before his 9th b-day. Beyond horrible. Whatever I
can
do to prevent it, I will.
Kathy Salvucci, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/
In a message dated 11/10/2015 1:28:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
The last time I was having chemo I had a terrible time, stopped breathing
twice, couldn't move one time, and a bunch of other stuff.
The doctor finally listened to me, reviewed the chart and said, "If you
had taken your chemo today, it would have killed you. Evidently you are one
of those people who are missing an enzyme and this treatment is deadly for
them."
When I asked if they didn't have a test for that, he told me only on the
autopsy. I decided not to wait, and stopped the chemo.
Maybe the DM test is the same thing.
Evan L. Ginsburg
_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
German Shepherd Youth Recognition Fund
_http://asgardgermanshepherd.com_ (http://asgardgermanshepherd.com/)
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stormy V. Hope <stormy435@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Evan Ginsburg <ELG440@xxxxxxx>
Cc: showgsd-l <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2015 8:32 am
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] DM info
That immediately came to my mind, too. If only a small tissue sample is
needed, is there some magical thing that occurs upon death that makes it the
only way to use a tissue sample? If the tissue must come from the spine,
that happens all the time. Even tissue samples from the brain is
possible.
Which brings up another question, why do they have to kill the dog to get
tissue samples from the brain to check for rabies?
The vets among us will probably have the answers.
Good morning, Listers
Stormy
On Nov 10, 2015, at 8:19 AM, Evan Ginsburg (Redacted sender "elg440" for
DMARC) <
_dmarc-noreply@freelists.org_ (mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) _>
wrote:_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
Again, the ONLY way to diagnose is trough necropsy. That isn't as awful
as it sounds, Dr. Coates will send instructions on what she needs for the
tissue sample and will examine FOR FREE. It's not the whole dog it's a small
tissue sample,
OK, here is a stupid question. Something I specialize in.
If you can diagnose it with a small tissue sample, why do you have to wait
for the dog to die? They do needle biopsies, so why not do them for DM?
Evan L. Ginsburg
http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
German Shepherd Youth Recognition Fund
_http://asgardgermanshepherd.com_ (http://asgardgermanshepherd.com/)
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
-----Original Message-----
From: dmarc-noreply <
_dmarc-noreply@freelists.org_ (mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) _>
To: Showgsd-l <_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) _Showgsd-l@freelists.org_
(mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) _>
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2015 6:09 am
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] DM info
Rather than deal in hearsay and 2nd hand stories, ambiguity etc. I prefer
to deal with facts, research and peer reviewed publications.
Here is the latest documented, published, peer reviewed research:
_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jvim.12317/pdf
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
Please note that the majority of false test results occurred w/ BMDs and
they have located an additional gene. That said, across all breeds the
current test is accurate 94-96% of the time. (Last paragraph, last table,
summary).
I have to tell you, that's enough for me to test and to make breeding
decisions based on test results. One of every breeding pair here will be a
clear. Period.
I have probably done as much testing as anyone because I test possible
keeper puppies. I have NEVER, repeat NEVER received an unexpected test
result. For example a clear bred to an at risk produced all carriers. A clear
to
a clear, only clears. A clear to a carrier, only clears and carriers.
Why some false results or unexpected results? Who knows? Improper testing
technique??? I have read on other sites where people w/ a variety of
breeds test puppies using cheek swabs. Wow, a lot of room for error there,
puppies nursing, mouthing each other. I only use blood when testing puppies.
(Maybe that's why my test results have been consistent????)
I would suggest actually that moving forward we have vets draw blood and
scan the dog's chip info. Test results reported as PI or no-PI.
What I really don't have time for are people who just "know" w/o testing
that a dog had DM. Sorry, there are just too many things that can mimic the
symptoms of DM.
It's important to note too that age of onset varies from breed to breed.
(GSDs young , 6+ compared to Corgis for instance). And yes, not all "at
risk" dogs develop DM early and some die from other causes before developing.
Speaking of other breeds, we are really doing one lousy job compared to
others. Maybe we backed the wrong horse initially and that's why folks are
reluctant.....
In closing the only way to diagnose DM is through necropsy. Again, the
ONLY way to diagnose is trough necropsy. That isn't as awful as it sounds,
Dr. Coates will send instructions on what she needs for the tissue sample
and will examine FOR FREE. It's not the whole dog it's a small tissue sample,
something your vet can handle before the dog is cremated. All of the info
is on her site. AGAIN, FREE. So for goodness sakes if you have a dog that
tested clear or carrier and show signs, send in a tissue sample at the
appropriate time. Why on earth wouldn't you????
I'm noticing that companion puppy people are the ones dragging breeders
(kicking and screaming, sadly, in many cases), to test. Not a week goes by
where I don't listen to a sobbing owner relaying what they have experienced
w/ a dog w/ DM. And the excuses they routinely hear on why NOT to
test....pathetic IMO.
Kathy Salvucci, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit
_http://www.pinehillgsds.com/ _ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
Stormy V. Hope
https://www.facebook.com/GSDCA.LegislationAwareness
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
https://www.facebook.com/CaRPOC.CaliforniaResponsiblePetOwnersCoalition
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
