In a message dated 8/2/11 3:37:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: In any case, all three of those breeds, along with many other dogs developed in the British Isles other than terriers, carry the gene for the Irish marking pattern...that is -- white paws or feet, white chest, sometimes a white collar, and a white muzzle or blaze on the head...so if Collies sometime in the past didn't allow a white chest, they would have had to deny the rest of the white marks that come with the Irish pattern.... Speaking of Irish, when I judged ARBA we had a red and white Irish Setter breed. I was told that was the original color and they went away from it. But, they told me it was being brought back. I was told it was by changing the standard. I know changing the standard is not favored by many in the GSDCA, but we do need to be open to any and all ideas to improve our breed. Evan Ginsburg Asgard German Shepherds http://www.asgardgsd.com/ Where Type Movement and Temperament come together ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================