The (late) Dr. Joe Giardina, DVM, son-in-law of Eric Renner, had a special curved knife from Germany, just for the purpose of cutting the ring. I took a bitch to him that had come in for a breeding and he solved the problem immediately, no putting the bitch out, no nothing! It was so fast the bitch didn't even show any discomfort. I had that procedure done a few times over the next several years, all with great results, natural breedings after that and only an office fee. Someone else must know about this tool. Helen ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================