[ SHOWGSD-L ] Breeding & Lines & problems
- From: "Carolyn" <marhaven@xxxxxxx>
- To: <Elsyd1@xxxxxxx>, <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:59:10 -0800
This post from Syd really struck me. Notice that she started out with Elbow
problems
and then from same line got hip problems, from similar line with different sire
she
got cleft palates and M.E........next litter bad hips......then bloat...and I
read
this as
coming down a same line with some different parents or outcrosses along the way.
Now it seems to me Syd got hit with just about every problem imagineable...but
none really the SAME. So if you decide the pedigree on the first dog has
elbow
problems and should be eliminated....but she continued on with different sires
she doesn't get hit with Elbows....she gets hit with H.D. Rids that bitch and
goes
to
a different sire line and gets hit with Cleft palates and M.E....then back to
hip
problems with different bitches.......after loosing the original to bloat...
What are we going to tell her........get out of breeding......get rid of the
bloodline
that is now in her pedigree today.....if it is....or she done good, carry on?
The only way to rid a problem is to use animals that do not carry the gene.
Right
now in yr. 2004 the only way to find out, is to breed them. We cannot utilize
the
DNA markers if we don't have them.
We all love getting a litter with no problems......no problems at all.... from
a ring
tail to a health problem. Even then, could be the litter mate you kept, does,
or
does
not, carry the evil gene......it will take breeding to know at this place in
time.
Could be in a great litter with NO HEALTH ISSUES you can see, but the one you
keep for breeding IS the one that picked up the bad gene from one parent, and
you get hit with something you've never had before, or thought you were rid of.
Remember.....you CANNOT BREED A GENE INTO A DOG! It must already be there.
IF the littermate in a disaster litter did NOT inherit the disaster gene....you
still
won't
GET the problem from that dog unless you breed it to a dog that IS a carrier of
that
gene..... whether outcross or linebred.....then some of the pups will be
carriers
again.
Even backmassing or linebreeding on that line won't give you the problems as
long
as the dogs you use are not carriers. Even outcrossing WILL give you the
problem
IF the dogs are carriers. It's a process of elimination and to eliminate you
have to
identify who the carriers are.....and that is not easy.....and all through this
maze
of genes we are looking for the perfect show/ working/ family dog.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxx
http://www.marhaven.com/bookerskids.htm
From: <Santanagsd1954@xxxxxx>To: <Elsyd1@xxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Don't blow your mind! ...when I first got into shepherds (about 30 years
> ago), I lost almost my entire first litter to elbow dysplasia. The male who
> survived became my first Ch, and produced a Ch. . The litttermate female
> produced > a Ch. with Masarati, the rest of the 2 litters from her all had
> HD. She
> was
> spayed as soon as I could make myself aaccept that she was the problem. She
> was OFA good. My third litter (different dad) was almost entirely lost from
> a > combination of cleft palate and mega. My forth (again) all had bad hips.
> Different bitches, as my first bitch ended up dying from bloat. I have had
> very > few (almost none) of these problems in the past 15 years. The parents
> were
> free from the problems, but, boy, they sure carried them. It was a
> nightmare > years ago. It is definately better now, I am almost totally
> free from
> these > problems, and so are most of my friends. We are definately trying
> harder..... > Syd
>
> SYD MAILBERG 425-432-4144
> 23910 SE 276TH ST
> MAPLE VALLEY, WA 98038
> Updated
>
> Syd: I'd love to have copies of those pedigrees.. Seriously!!
> In my personal opinion, when you have a litter with such terrible
> problems, none of their littermates should ever be used for breeding as you
> don't
> know who among the survivors are the carriers.
> When we get DNA Markers then we can hope to identify the carriers that
> appear not be affected physically, so we can see if they are genetically
> affected. But that is a way off... so I am Really Interested in knowing how
> you got
> to
> the Shepherds you have now, without these problems... I think it would be a
> good lesson for all especially the new people.. on the List.
> Did these Shepherds produce more problems such as those that appeared in
> their litters, when they were bred to others??
> How did you clean up the problems?
> Did you stay with the same bloodlines??
> Did you outcross?
> It is Very interesting and would be very helpful to learn how you bred away
> from those problems..This is the kind of information we need... . Thanks!!
> barb
>
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