Forget the rats. I'd like to know why the sick puppies weren't taken to the vet's *office* or an emergency clinic after the very *first* puppy died. The List is great when it comes to helping with minor/chronic problems, but we are not veterinarians and did not have firsthand knowledge or hands-on contact with these poor puppies. How can we offer any insight into what happened to these pups? Weren't they a little old for diagnosing something like "fading puppy" syndrome? They didn't appear to be suffering from something obvious like Parvo either. Given the low body temperature and the gray gums, all one can say about them is that they went into shock. Other than that, what can one infer from a post? If the breeder could not afford to take the puppies into a vet's office, they should *not* be breeding. In a dire situation like this, consulting with a vet over the phone is not good enough. Obviously! I do hope the rest of the puppies will be okay and a necropsy will reveal why those puppies died. Paulette McGuirt, GSDCA Member Wellborn-Allemande German Shepherds Qui Me Amat, Amat et Canem Meam ----- Original Message ----- From: <foxhavengs@xxxxxxx> To: <arycrest@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:55 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Breeder needs puppy help - urgent LONG Gayle well said. I completely agree with you . The focus is why these puppies are dying and if we can provide insight. Not start bashing a person on information that we are not 100% clear on. So lets try to help this person and show that GSD people are caring and?willing to help??are own breed and other breeds. Not that we are ?judgemental and rude. -----Original Message----- From: arycrest@xxxxxxxxxxx <arycrest@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:41 am Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Breeder needs puppy help - urgent LONG ..... give ME a break! if not, at least give those poor pups a sanitary and safe place to live. =================================How judgmental can anyone get from reading one short email? The email said in part, "We did have a rat problem early in the spring and we caught about 20 rats in rat traps. They could have brought something onto the property but no one has given me any ideas what it could be. No poison was ever used. No chemicals on the lawn or gardens. No sprays of any kinds. We clean the puppy room with bleach. And all bedding is changed daily. No new toys or anything have come into the environment. Same ones we use all the time and wash regularly. " She never said she had 20 rats in her house. She said she trapped 20 rats without specifing anything more than the rats were on her property. Even if she trapped all 20 in the house she apparently resolved the problem. Gosh, you admitted you had a rat in your house - should everyone jump to the conclusion your house was filthy - of course not! She stated what procedure she follows to keep the puppy area clean, where does it say the puppies are in an unsanitary or unsafe environment? Gayle & the Hooligans! http://www.picturetrail.com/arycrest - Link to The Hooligans Albums ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your needs. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYVg8FY5PSPG962ZhWtQikj1HguaDyGTdUMhdCyasXdO6CrSTni6Mw/ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POS T AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================