You are right about the differences in breeds. I have had several all breed judges comment to me in the ring about "you Shepherd people and your Am bred class". Many breeds do not utilize the Am Bred class like us, especially at all breed shows. When I was showing our Shiba Inu, we put her in Am Bred once at an all breed and of course she was the only one in that class. All the other Shiba people asked us what we were thinking and pretty much made fun of us because they never use Am bred. They go from Puppy classes straight to Open or Bred-by. That said, even those all breed judges that made those comments did put up the best dog there in most cases, and did so from Am Bred when granted. If the judges is a good one they will find the best dog there regardless of the class. You just have to keep making your lists of good, bad or otherwise. I certainly have mine! vbg Jeff Pyle -----Original Message----- From: pruett@xxxxxxxxx To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:51 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Bred-by.... There do seem to be biases in the different breeds. I do find it very = difficult to take points from bred-by or novice in our breed. Am bred, = 12-18, and open class winners are often considered by our judges from = points. In shelties, it's unusual to win from Am Bred, but quite common = to take the points from bred-by and the puppy classes. It's encouraging = to hear that Ann has had better experiences in bred-by recently. We will = be showing our animals in bred-by and are counting on that trend to = continue. There are judges out there that will consider bred-by animals = and we'll be hoping for them in our area. Lee Brown will always consider = a bred-by animal and I know Joan Fox pointed to a bred-by dog for WD when = she judged the national in Columbus. I'm sure there are others out = there... Laurie >>> "D.D. and Bonnie Ardoin" <cudjoegsd@xxxxxxxxxxx> 11/27/2006 10:33 AM = >>> It is nice to see something positive about breeder-judges as mentioned in Ann`s post. She speaks from successful experiences. D.D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ANN SCHULTZ" <edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <pruett@xxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Bred-By Brags! > Congrats, Laurie, I have found the breeder judges will look at BBE = faster then the all breed.Three of my dogs in the last year have gotten 8 majors = at specialties from BBE. After showing 2 shows in the last month at all = breeds, I am going to Open with my bitch so she will get looked at for the points. Maybe we need to make a list of all breed judges that will look at that class. JMO Ann ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================ ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================