Well the way I learned it if the inner side of the upper incisors didn't the outer side of the lower incisors during a bite it was a problem. Also the old timers taught me you shouldn't fit a match between incisors.....so I guess it's pretty clear to me and not an objective finding when checking a bite and lifting the muzzle slightly upward with the mouth closed.... Mind you I am talking about an adult dog and not a 4-5-6 month old dog. We all know the bottom jaw can grow more slowly. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit http://www.pinehillgsds.com/ In a message dated 1/8/2015 7:48:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cudjoegsd@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: Kathy- The problem with a dog who is overshot it that is an objective finding. Faults in gait, etc. can be subjective and harder to defend while an overshot mouth is obvious. Also temperament problems can be hidden and on and on. D.D. On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 5:29 PM, dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: I understood you were speaking about GSDs and I reiterate, I would be very surprised to see one in the Group. In fact, I wouldn't bother showing or breeding one, but I 'dunno, maybe that's me. Bad bites are something that come back to.....well you know the rest. And yes, there's no perfect dog, but why take the time and $$$$ to show something with a trait that is not only undesirable but obvious? Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit http://www.pinehillgsds.com/ In a message dated 1/8/2015 4:22:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, stormy435@xxxxxxxxx writes: Since this followed D.D.’s query on the GSD Standard, this referred to GSDs overshot jaw is undesirable, not a fault. Storm On Jan 8, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Evan Ginsburg < _elg440@aol.com_ (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('elg440@xxxxxxx')) > wrote: (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('elg440@xxxxxxx')) What does that dog's standard say about overshot jaw? Remember, they are to be judged against their standard, and every standard has different traits. Evan -----Original Message----- From: Stormy V. Hope < _stormy435@gmail.com_ (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('stormy435@xxxxxxxxx')) > Cc: Showgsd-l GSDList < _showgsd-l@freelists.org_ (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx')) > Sent: Thu, Jan 8, 2015 10:37 am Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Another question on: Understanding the GSD Standard I have another question and Chris’ example just reminded me …. (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx')) Judges out there: No dog is perfect, but if you were judging a group and one dog was far closer to the standard that the others, almost perfect in your eyes, BUT had an overshot jaw, what would you do? (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx')) (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx')) Stormy Hope (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx')) (javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx')) Stormy V. Hope https://www.facebook.com/GSDCA.LegislationAwareness (https://www.facebook.com/GSDCA.LegislationAwareness) https://www.facebook.com/CaRPOC.CaliforniaResponsiblePetOwnersCoalition (https://www.facebook.com/CaRPOC.CaliforniaResponsiblePetOwnersCoalition) =