In a message dated 12/17/11 7:55:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, fairway97045@xxxxxxxxx writes: I don't think I have ever produced a roach back. The main thing is that they all seem to have more leg than we are used to seeing. I used the roach as an example. When the Martins were in control in Germany they felt the roach was the right thing to do. Since he judged their show, that is what won. I remember talking to Herr Martin and having him tell me that the roach was a sign of strength, like the cornerstone of an arch in a bridge. I understand now in Germany they are trying to breed away from it. My point is that if you breed to what you see, you had better look at the rest of the litter from which your breeding stock came, what is behind it, and what it has produced, or what the lines produced in other breedings. That is hard to do with a dog you just see, and haven't had experience with other litters. I too have seen some nice animals from German/American cross breeding. What I haven't seen is much of a line of sucess from those dogs. Except, for Lance, of course, but that was an awfull long time ago. Doesn't it seem like yesterday? And, you know what kind of day yesterday was. I myself, spent it at the mall doing close-up magic for shoppers. It was a good day. I think everyone knows I love the German style dogs. I go crazy for that red color and the power and drive are fantastic. However, since I choose to show at AKC shows, I will continue to breed to what I see is our standard. It is our standard that we judge against, and it pleases me to be able to reach that goal. Were I in Germany, I would breed to what they interpret their standard to be. But, I am not. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Evan Ginsburg Asgard German Shepherds http://www.asgardgsd.com/ Where Type Movement and Temperament come together ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================