Donna, you make some valid points, but in my bitch's case, she went Reserve in her regular futurity. Do I then tell Jake that he can't show in the amateur futurity, because his dog won the day before. That would sure keep new handlers excited about showing. A different day, a different dog show and a different handler can make for different results. If the same dog always won, the rest of us may as well stay home. The maturity bitch Jake showed hasn't gone to her maturity yet. What then? Do we really want to make it so if a dog is really good, it can't be shown in the amateur venue. I would hope not.Also would the entry fee be refunded? I am always interested in new people that want to show. I have let juniors show good young puppies at shows, when they are getting started. A couple years ago, I needed a handler for my futurity bitch and Terry Hower's grandson ,Travis, was there. He really wants to show too. He took her in the TA class competing with the top handlers in the country and he won. The rules need to stipulate who is and isn't eligible. That's it. Ann Donna Graham <dgraham@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D If dogs that hadn't been entered in the regular futurity hadn't been entered there would have basically been no amateur futurity. =0D =0D Ann=0D =0D =0D I don't agree with this statement. Now grant it alot of the dogs that w= ere entered in the amateur =0D Venue were Also in the regular futurity this year but I think that had a lot more to do with seeing how things were going to work out with the amateur venue and there were only a few that wanted to give it a try.=0D =0D I think it would be better if we had to choose which venue to participat= e in. That way the same animal isn't winning both and it gives someone else a chance to take another quality=0D Animal on to the national. =0D =0D Or enter both but if your animal does win in the regular futurity (BIF= , BOF, or any of the reserves)=0D Then they are no longer eligible to=0D Compete for the amateur division. Somewhat like the Novice class if you win a point you no longer compete in novice. I think that would make i= f more fair for the dogs AND handlers=0D It would be a little more encouraging to be in an amateur setting knowing your not competing with=0D Yesterdays Big winners. =0D =0D As far as limiting who can can handle any amateur should be ok (Don't think judges should be included )=0D =0D Why not on the Amateur entry form have a statement such as they do with = the Junior handlers=0D =0D It states : By signing the entry form I certify that the Junior Showma= n does not now, and will not at any time , act as an agent/handler for pay while continuing to compete in Junior Showmanship=0D =0D I'm sure this could be reworded to fit the amateur entries somehow.=0D =0D Just a few thoughts.=0D =0D Donna ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ Ann , Home of Sel Ex Ch Mechanical Bull and #1 Dam I've Got It All ROM Breeder-Owner of 62 Champions and 18 ROMs www.edangsd.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================