That was Sheree and I hope you take her up on her offer:) Our standard and the purpose of our breed hasn't changed since you were a "kid" so maybe the dogs you remember as a child weren't good ones structurally? That's OK, most of us didn't start with stars, so we learn... Re combining German and American lines, I don't. I DO have a Jim son here but personally I've never figured out how to mix the two..OTHERS HAVE and hats off to them but not me. When he was used w/ American bitches I saw puppies that look like little GV & GVXs at 4 months that lost everything on both ends by 6 months and I HAVE to have good fronts and rear follow through. My old guy had his last litter (at 10 /2) and I always wondered if I had bred him to an "overgone" gal if I would have kept enough, but we'll never know because I never had an overdone girl for him. He has an interesting daughter and if she is bred back into correctly angulated American lines I'd be tempted to buy a puppy... Re tending, to be efficient a dog has to take the least amount of steps (cover the most ground) with the least amount of effort. You don't get that w/ "square". You get choppy and inneficient. Study the breed history. GSDs didn't just tend a flock in a stationary spot, they frequently had to move herds many miles to better pasture in Germany. Not so much now lol, (and that was only part of the job, they are a versatile bunch!) but we don't want to lose the effortless floating EFFICIENT gait. Keep studying and take Sheree up on her offer. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) In a message dated 12/7/2011 9:08:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ninemaplefarm@xxxxxxx writes: I will say at the last show I attended I met the people who showed that dog on tv during thanksgiving. I think the last name was Moses. They were nice and the wife(sorry I am bad with names) even told me to bring my puppy and she would show me grooming and handling tips(unfortunately, I couldn't make it back out there). But, I thought that was really nice of them and I think (hope) they could tell I was serious about the breed. Their dog won BIS and had a very good temperament... Anyway, I hear what you are saying about angles and I still don't remember ever seeing GSDs as a kid have their hind end like that. I don't think it's functional. I don't see that build in any other tending breed( note I said tending and not herding). Did GSDs look like that in the 60's? There must be a reason for the current appearance of the hind legs. What is it? ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================