Sue....I hardly think that 1 EPI and 1 pannus in a litter is enough to condemn a stud dog. It takes two to tango and while I see you stressed "outside" indicating to me that you believe that it is impossible to have come from your bloodlines, I just think it is a bit of a stretch. Now, if I were you I would not use that dog again of course, and maybe steer clear of his bloodlines as there is possibly something that does not mesh well with your lines. That is the magic and skill of breeding, but not enough to indicate that the stud is horrible or the owners are dishonest. Just my opinion, of course. cynthia --- On Sun, 9/7/08, Arcturus <Arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Arcturus <Arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] A stud dog not to use To: "thelist" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Sunday, September 7, 2008, 9:23 PM I used a outside stud dog three years ago and in that one litter I've had 1 puppy with EPI ( diagnosed at a year) and now another puppy with Pannus. If anyone wants to know what dog I used for stud, e-mail privately and I'll tell you. Sue Tomlinson ===========================================================================POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org =========================================================================== ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================