I agree with Carolyn here. I would not breed to a white, but I have found a well bred pet can produce as well as a top winning show dog. I would breed to other faults, that I think my dogs can correct also. I kept my first coat in almost 30 years of breeding and she has a litter of 5 short coated puppies at this time. Ann Home of Sel Ex # 6 Ch Maxwell, Sel Ex Ch Gilley and #1 Dam Muggles - owner/breeder of 69 champions and 19 ROMs --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] A stud by any other name is still just a stud.... To: uwish@xxxxxxxxxx, "'Showgsd-l'" <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:31 PM I always consider the term "Breeder" to mean someone that 'breeds their Breed' according to the Standard with a constant eye for improvement. Not someone that merely allows their dogs to 'procreate' for a fee.........? That being said......I see nothing wrong with breeding to a pet quality bitch with a really good pedigree. Every single Champion we see has pet quality littermates......many achieve their R.O.M. Some produce less faults than their Champion littermate. Breeding to something like a white is unnaceptable to me as it is a disqualification according to our Standard and a result of generations of breeding FOR a disqualifying fault. ( equivalant to breeding for down ears in my thinking. ) Sorry............Sigh......... .let the war begin......... Breeding to a bitch with a bad bite or one with ears not standing can be done with some forethought on whether your stud will help or make it worse. Again..many top Champions have a littermate or progeny with ears that did not come up........ or a bad bite. I know of a bitch from this area with a rye bite that was a top producer of several nice progeny and Champions and I think the owner bred her to several different studs. Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Galasso Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] A stud by any other name is still just a stud.... So I'm talking to this breeder yesterday about stud dogs. He told me that he would breed his champion black and tan stud to a white bitch just for the stud service. He also said he'd breed pet quality bitches who had a good pedigree to his studs. I asked him if he'd breed a blue to his dog. He said he'd have to think about it. He commented to me that times are tough right now with the economy being bad so it wouldn't be easy to turn away a $500 stud fee. This same breeder once said to me that the dogs have to earn their keep. He's not raising and feeding dogs just because they're his pets. If nothing else, he's honest. So what do you think, should a stud dog be bred to just about any bitch because of the stud fee? Where do you draw the line? Don't we have a responsibility to breed the best quality litters that we can according to the standard? Barbara ===========================================================================POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ =========================================================================== ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================