When it comes to hips/elbows, although I just got permanent #s on a male from OVC at 18 months (before he was used for his first litter), I have no problem at all using a younger male w/ "good" or better prelims. They aren't the ones carrying the babies and truthfully, I think starting a boy sooner rather than later makes for a better stud dog down the road. Justin was 9 months I think for his first litter (he'll be 10 on June 15) and JR wasn't much older (he'll be 10 July 10th). The caveat here is that you want to be in long-lived lines! It would be unusual for me to breed a bitch before she was two, more from the maturity standpoint and ability to calmly and successfully raise a litter than worrying about hips/elbows. I prelim everything and I have bred bitches just going on prelims if they haven't gone in for permanent #s w/ timing issues, not wanting to x-ray right before coming in season etc. But you do a lot more testing on GPs, CERF, vWD, thyroid so maybe that breed is different. Although...both CERF and thyroid results can change as a dog ages, so although it's super they are clear/at an acceptable thyroid level one year we all know it doesn't mean anything w/o a test the following year. Give Jinx a hug! Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) In a message dated 5/9/2011 5:53:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gsdmomx3@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: How many breeders prelim and then breed before the age of two? And how many feel it's OK to breed before all health testing had been completed? I am seeing a trend of doing this and just wondering why? Donna Turner ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================