[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: 4 month rule - Question
- From: "shephaven" <shephaven@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <barbmarkh@xxxxxxx>, <nancy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <acara1997@xxxxxxx>, <kevinreynolds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:53:24 -0300
How's it going, eh
Here is a question for all whiners, and pot stirrers out there (including
myself)
If you were sitting around a table with a bunch of guys playing poker, and
you knew that the guy sitting accross from you was cheating, what would you
do?
Would you say "Oh well, he is a nice guy" and let him continue to cheat, or
would you shoot him?
Tough question, eh
Wayne
Wayne Ewart
Lynne Gibson
Shep Haven Abbaway German Shepherds
www.geocities.com/abbaway
----- Original Message -----
From: <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <barbmarkh@xxxxxxx>; <nancy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <acara1997@xxxxxxx>;
<kevinreynolds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 5:09 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: 4 month rule - Question
Barb part of point 6 is incorrect. Bart and Tiff live on adjoining
properties. there are separate kennels, , they have separate driveways,
BUT also share a common one. they live extremely close, but not the same
property technically. The rest they will have to answer. Since you quoted
me I felt I should explain further. Christine
hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Steve and Christine Grainger
WWW.HICKORYHILLGSD.COM
> [Original Message]
> From: <barbmarkh@xxxxxxx>
> To: <nancy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<acara1997@xxxxxxx>; <kevinreynolds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 8/12/2007 3:01:48 PM
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] 4 month rule - Question
>
>
>
> 1) The owner judge did not hire the handler
> 2) The handler was picked up at ringside, & asked to take the dog in to
hold the
> major.
> 3) There was no other handler available.
> 4) The judge was not at the show
> 5) The hired handler who was Alex Muse, did not make it to the show due
to
> flight delay.
> 6) The handler had NEVER handled for this judge before, according
> to AKC a "BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP HAD NOT EXISTED PREVIOUSLY and
> BECAUSE THE JUDGE DID NOT "HIRE" THE HANDLER AT THE TIME an
established
> business relationship did not exist
> 7) The judge was not "billed" for the handling service. .
>
>
> First - let me say - I am definitely not trying to make enemies - and I
am definitely not trying to single anyone out personally - I just need some
help understanding this . . .I have read all the post - so? - I understand
what everyone has said - I admit I am involved since I have lost my win in
the NW maturity - and for the record I did not know about the January show
- and I don't think the fact that the judge and handler weren't punished
and the owners/dogs are the only ones being punished is fair - but that is
now water over the bridge . . . .I just need to understand this rule.
> Okay what I understand about both events:
> 1. The owner judge did not hire the handler - okay, this is clear - Kathy
did not hire Tiffany and Paul did not hire Jerry.
> 2.The handler was picked up at ringside, & asked to take the dog in to
hold the major. - We know that Tiffany was picked up at ringside and than
Jerry was booked by Ms. Cunningham ahead of time because Jerry's name was
listed in the Catalogue.? But we now know that there was no major to be
held - so mute point.
> 3) There was no other handler available.? We now know that this wasn't
true in either case . . .
> 4. The judge was not at the show?? I don't know if Paul was at the show
in January - what I understand is that the bitch had already been purchased
by Ms. Cunningham but the papers - although signed by all parties - had not
been sent to the AKC - so - without thinking - the Root's name was put on
the entry in case the bitch won - she didn't want it disallowed by the AKC
-? - - I understand that Kathy was not at the show in question .
>
> 5. The hired handler who was Alex Muse, did not make it to the show due
to flight delay. - we now know that it was a business deal - but I don't
think the reason matters . .
>
> 6. The handler had NEVER handled for this judge before,? according?to AKC
a "BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP HAD NOT EXISTED PREVIOUSLY and?BECAUSE THE JUDGE
DID NOT? "HIRE" THE HANDLER AT THE TIME an established?
> business relationship did not exist??? Okay - I don't live on the West
Coast - but I believe that if you ask Paul who his handler is - he will
name Art Sinclair and Jack Kilgour - I do believe that Jerry has handled
for Paul in the past - at least 6 months prior to this show I think (not
sure - I didn't ask - shame on me)? - so does this mean that the rules are
different if you have EVER used a given handler as opposed to a one time
thing?????? In the NW case - I do know that Jerry was hired and paid by Ms.
Cunningham and that Ms. Cunningham is a regular client of Jerry's and the
Root's are not (or so I am told).? In the other case - from Christine's
post - Bart and Tiffany live next door to each other and share a kennel -
is that right?? If true - if it's at Bart's is it at Tiffany's????
> 7.? The judge was not "billed" for the handling service. .? Okay - in
neither case was the judge in question "billed" for the handling service -
I understand that copies of the bill and canceled check are available in
the NW case - don't know anything about the other case.
>
>
>
> Okay - with Wayne - here is my problem.? Either we have a 4 month rule
which states that if you have handled for a judge within that time - you
cannot show under that judge . . . .or we have a bunch of unless this and
unless that....When I appealed to the AKC for my win - I pointed out the
"circumstances" in the NW case as I understand them - NONE OF THEM MATTERED
- it didn't matter that proof could be offered that the bitch had already
been purchased - or that Ms. Cunningham had been the regular client of the
handler - or that Ms. Cunningham had paid the bill - It also didn't matter
that Jerry is not my regular handler (Sean Conboy is my regular
handler).??? So how do you tell which circumstances will matter and which
won't . . .
>
> On the side of the same thing happened at both - you have a handler who
went in the ring with a dog owned by a judge and then showed under that
judge within a 4 month time frame . . .One handler (Tiffany) may have known
it belonged to a judge that she was to show under at a fut/mat - Jerry says
he didn't know until much later that the bitch in January was entered with
Paul's name on it - either way . . . .
> If your wondering why I am asking and to be clear - none of this will
help my bitch - you won't see her at the National - but I would like to
understand so I and others can stay out of the same "trouble" in the future
. . .
>
> Thanks for helping . . .
> Barb
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nancy Harper <nancy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: InquestGSD@xxxxxxx; ELG440@xxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:47 am
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: It may be too personal
>
>
>
>
> In order for everyone to receive information here is a report; there
appears to
> be on going concern about the objectivity of the investigation
surrounding the
> Midwest.
> Kris called me to report that an exhibitor at the MW Futurity had
expressed
> concern to her about a handler showing under the judge at the Futurity.
> A formal complaint was not filed, I was present at the MW Futurity and
was not
> approached at any time during that Futurity.
> Nevertheless, information was gathered and the facts reported to AKC.
Report was
> to Jack Norton, Head of Compliance, working our of the Raleigh Offices.
> The AKC concluded that a "conflict of interest" did not exist BUT, AKC
> recommended that the MW Futurity Judge be notified that in the future,
for the
> sake "of not creating a suspicion of impropriety" she should not allow
the same
> situation in the future. The judge has been so notified.
> Why did AKC deem there was not an "INTENTIONAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST" ?
> 1) The owner judge did not hire the handler
> 2) The handler was picked up at ringside, & asked to take the dog in to
hold the
> major.
> 3) There was no other handler available.
> 4) The judge was not at the show
> 5) The hired handler who was Alex Muse, did not make it to the show due
to
> flight delay.
> 6) The handler had NEVER handled for this judge before, according
> to AKC a "BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP HAD NOT EXISTED PREVIOUSLY and
> BECAUSE THE JUDGE DID NOT "HIRE" THE HANDLER AT THE TIME an
established
> business relationship did not exist
> 7) The judge was not "billed" for the handling service. .
>
> I sent this same information to an individual who contacted me
privately, the
> reply was that is a "bunch of "b--- s----" . and implied that favoritism
was
> inherent in the decision making process by saying it is evident who is
> important. Now, the PC nor I make AKC rules, we do not interrupt them
on our
> own and we do not decide who/what/when the sanction will be. Therefore,
the
> only conclusion I can reach is that the individual thinks that I gave
misleading
> information to AKC. If the majority think the National Futurity Chair is
> dishonest - then a replacement is in order - there will be NO resistance
from
> the chair. (Don't ask me who sent the private email - I am in Executive
> Session) !!! .
> Nancy Harper
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <InquestGSD@xxxxxxx>
> To: <ELG440@xxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 7:35 AM
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: It may be too personal
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/10/2007 12:08:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> ELG440@xxxxxxx writes:
> I got an answer from Nancy about the Futurities. She is very responsive
if
> you have a question or problem.
>
> Evan
>
>
>
>
> I stand corrected. Nancy Harper has been responsive, that's true.
>
> Ileana
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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>
>
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> POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the
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> author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any
kind
> are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
> Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER
> OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION
OF ALL
> PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND
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> POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS
of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author
AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
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POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any
kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of
the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
============================================================================
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org
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