I had better send this now as I never know if my posts will go through. I tried to post on about the 10th to say the 1965 National was held on the grounds of the Disneyland Hotel in Anaheim, Ca. The Grand Victor was Ch. Brix vd Grafenkrone and the Grand Victrix was Ch. Mar-Sa's Velvet of Malabar. She was a daughter of Ch. Ulk Winkingerblut (the top winning Shepherd at that time) and Malabar's Lorri of Rocky Reach who was half German and half American. Velvet's Owner was Sam Stall who was a novice and handled her all the way through to her CH. and GX. title. The point being a novice can do it with the right dog and a lot of work. He used to run with her several times a week several miles. The Pacific Coast Grand Victor & Victrix title was given by the San Diego Specialty Club at one of their two shows each year. Nancy Godwin ngxotic@xxxxxxxxxxxx ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================