George? I was pointing out your erroneous statement. Do you know what erroneous means? It means it contained an error. It does not mean irrelevant. You made a statement with an error, which you commonly do. There has been no incident in my recent memory of any radios being ?blown?. Your statement said there was such an incident in the ?immediate past? which is completely a statement in error. This does not mean that I don?t want safeguards built in. Again, I was the one promoting an idiot proof station, and I am currently working on a way for switching to occur between the two stations that will be so. I don?t mean this as an attack, but you really are to blame for this barrage of emails. I don?t know how many times you keep misunderstanding what was said in this reflector. Your first error was saying that I was ?turning the hf amp over to the general population? in your own words. I was doing no such thing. I was detailing how somebody could use the station WITHOUT using the amplifier. Of course you got that confused, and that is what started this whole mess. Then you went on to say that I did not understand the use of ?u? and ?r? in CW. You missed the words that were right in front of your eyes. My quote was as follows -->? Consider using capital letters, as well as complete words instead of ?u? and ?r? for ?you? and ?are?. I could see such usage on CW, but it is inappropriate here? You somehow twisted the meaning of this and responded with --> ?. i am told that he came out of the cb world and may not be aware of the history and protocalls of ham radio, especially the use of "r" and "u" which were conventions of cw operation? . Are you so blind that you could not see that I knew exactly the origin of the terms? And now, I use the word erroneous, and you think it means irrelevant. I am sorry, but this is a trend. You have got to be the most feeble minded person I have run into in years. This fact is obvious to the most casual observer. Normally I would allow your decline in mental capacity to continue without interruption, but when you involve me in it, I have to respond. I am sorry if this results in the reflector being moderated, but you are totally out of control, and if moderation is required to get rid of your ineptitude in writing and comprehending the English language, then so be it. This exchange has reached the point of diminishing returns. My quest to correct your erroneous statements could be a full time job if I don?t stop now. If you want to make a small but convenient improvement, I suggest you spend a fraction of the money you like to throw around and get a spell checker. Dave _____ From: sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of george bernard Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:03 PM To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc dave, i think the care of the equipment is entirely relevant to all members. And avery is the station master, this should be his domain and responsibility, a single point of control . george ps: you just never give up. santa barbara, ca web page is www.balanceindustries.com for my company cell 818-370-9407 _____ From: David Dowler Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 8:51 PM To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc Again we have erroneous information. This is definitely a trend I don?t recall any blown radios in the ?immediate past?. There has barely been any operation in the ?immediate past?. The only thing that was blown, was an amplifier that was probably more than 10 years ago because it was not operating when I starting coming to the club in 2001. _____ From: sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of george bernard Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:37 PM To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc avery, you are the station master, so i pressume that sometime you will make a plan for where the radios go in the new console and how they are to be operated. we dont need any more blown radios which is the situation in the immediate past. what do you recommend? george santa barbara, ca�� web page is www.balanceindustries.com for my company cell 818-370-9407 _____ From: Avery Wright KD4GBA Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 7:38 PM To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc Ok? one more thing?. I do not want to stifle creative discussion, just some of the interpersonal disagreements I have seen as of late.� If you have a valid concern, gripe or whatever that DOES need to be shared with the entire membership, please use this list.� That is what it is here for.� All I ask is that no matter what your current relationship with each person posting is, please keep it civil, respectful and above all ?free of personal attacks?.� The rule of thumb is, ?If you are having a problem with another member, don?t air out your grievance with the entire membership.� Enough said. I just felt that I needed to clarify my last post a bit and this is the last I will say about it for now. Thanks to all for your support of the club and your support of this list. 73, Avery Wright, KD4GBA SARC Member At Large List Administrator/Moderator From: sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dennis Daniel Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:18 PM To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc Thank you Avery I agree with your comments and leadership Dennis KM6DF ----- Original Message ----- From: Avery <mailto:kd4gba@xxxxxxx> Wright KD4GBA To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc Ok...this is where I have to step in. Disagreements are a part of life and at times can be healthy, other times, not so healthy. If you have a gripe, disagreement or other type of comment, please remember that this list goes to ALL members, not just the individual or individuals that you may be taking issue with. I know it is easy just to hit reply but please keep the "feuds" off this list. We don't want to make this list "moderated" but it is an option. (BTW, "moderated" means all posts have to clear the administrator before it is released to the list members.) I don't know if it is because I'm an administrator/moderator or what but when I receive an email from the list the From: line shows "On Behalf Of (user name here) and their email address. If you don't see their email address to reply to directly, John has sent out a membership list a couple of times with all the members email addresses on it. Please look up the email address for the person you want to reply to and send your gripes, concerns, etc. directly to the recipient, not this list. Thanks for your consideration in this matter. Avery Wright, KD4GBA SARC Member At Large List Administrator/Moderator From: sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Dowler Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:53 AM To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc George Perhaps you should actually read what I said. I know the CW references, I cited them *** "Consider using capital letters, as well as complete words instead of "u" and "r" for "you" and "are". I could see such usage on CW, but it is inappropriate here." I am also a CW operator, and was at the club CW station two years ago at field day. I have been a licensed ham since 1977. I would be happy to compare my knowledge of ham radio protocols with you at any time. Maybe I could teach you to spell the word "protocol" while we are at it. If you don't care about the money, then why were you the one that brought it up in your first email in this thread? *** "i dont want the amps blown out due to over driving, i paid a lot of money for them" I also care about the welfare of the equipment. Remember, I am the one pushing for the idiot proof station! I don't need a pat on the head. Simply watching the stuff work is my reward and my passion. It was when somebody like you came along that I had to provide an enumerated list of what I was doing. But you really are a case of the pot calling the kettle black. If there is somebody that needs a pat on the head it is you. You made it clear that you provided a pencil sharpener and door handles for the cabinets. Thanks so much. As for Winlink, I was happy to work on it and see it work. I also was the one at a board meeting that saw that the club was disinterested and lead the vote to abandon it. You really need to get your facts straight. Paul is right.. this should be done in another venue. I would like to quit tying this up with responses to correct George's errors, Dave _____ From: sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of george bernard Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:15 AM To: john maetta Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc paul, our club has a history of broken radios due to improper operation, that is a fact. my only concern is that the vhf gear, some of which is NOT donated but still mine and being used in the vhf set up, will become part of this tradition of broken gear. furthermore, the value of the gear which i donated plus the cash contributions which i have made are "trivial" compared to other charitable donatons which i have made to ucsb, the sheriff dept, and the santa barbara college of law (scholarship program) i really dont care about the $$, i just dont want to see some guy blow out the amps because the vhf station is set up as a jerry rig at this time, hopefully avery wright who is station manager will eventually resolve the broken gear dilemma with some reorganzation and procedures as the new shelving becomes completed. until then i am still available to drive up to the club and show other properly qualified operators how to avoid the possibility of damaging the radios. as for dowler, he is one of those kind of people who needs a continuous pat on the head, we have had employees like him and we usually indulge them in order to keep them happy. i am told that he came out of the cb world and may not be aware of the history and protocalls of ham radio, especially the use of "r" and "u" which were conventions of cw operation. he is bummed out because nobody was interested in his winlink deal in which he apparently spent a lot of time. by the way, paul, cul (for dave that means see you later in plain english) george PS: i look forward to showing our new tech members, joe shrum and steve clark, how to operate the vhf station, since i was responsible for bringing them into the club! i am also hoping that some club members will want to join the civil air patrol where i met these serious minded new hams. i will be up at the club wed and sunday evenings for net working. harold and i visited and met the goleta round table guys sunday for breakfast in an eyeball situation and invited them to come up next weekend for the vhf contest. i have already had one response from a sr raytheon engr. santa barbara, ca web page is www.balanceindustries.com for my company cell 818-370-9407 _____ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 02:50:45 -0700 To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx From: pandreasen@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc Don't doubt it a bit George, and thanks! I do think you may have misunderstood the gist of the message, but thanks for all you've done anyway! Paul, K1JAN At 09:57 PM 6/7/2009, you wrote: paul, i spent a lot of time cleaning the sarc bathroom as well as pushing for a great vhf station. ask bob harrison if you dont know what i did on my hands and knees. george santa barbara, ca web page is www.balanceindustries.com <http://www.balanceindustries.com/> for my company cell 818-370-9407 _____ Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:44:45 -0700 To: sarcmembers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx From: pandreasen@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc I realize I have had little to do with the current affairs and equipment, having been to few meetings because of health and work over the last couple of years. But having been a member since 1978, 8 to 10 times as President,( I forget which) and being the Equipment Manager for around 20 years, I have to agree with Dave. George, I really do appreciate all you have done and donated.. Please don't misunderstand that. But you are not the first to do so. Myself, and through my now thankfully ex business, I have donated tens of thousands of dollars to the club over the years, and many thousands of hours. Once I did that, it was theirs. When I wanted to retain control over anything, I "loaned" it to the club with the proviso that they give it back in the same condition Donate means "give away"! If these areas really do bother you that much, then I doubt anyone would blame you, or care, (except a greedy few that every organization has) if you quit donating stuff. But, again, I agree with Dave. If it has been donated to the club, you have exactly the same rights to opinion and voice as any other member. Your checkbook IS appreciated, but only buys membership. And, again please, take this in the manner it is meant, not as a "diss". You are a likeable guy, and as a dedicated ham, a valuable asset. Your checkbook doesn't change anything but what you feel like doing with it. We have had multimillionaires a members, and several that could have bought Vandenberg! They were still "just" valued members, NOT "sources". If and when someone does act as generous as you, I really believe it is greatly appreciated. Being able to "do" something, rather than just "planning to" is always great. But please, even if this offends you, we like you for you, not the checkbook. (I do speak for just me, but I would bet most feel the same). If it does offend you, then ignore me, and I probably won't cry. If not, and you can take it in the FRIENDLY manner it was given, I think everyone will like you even more. (We already have too many members who only function after pats on the back, and having their balloon inflated!) We DO STILL VALUE them, but it gets tiresome. The last two years of my business, I donated more to charity than I took home as pay. I did most of it anonymously, because being "known" as the giver isn't why it should be done. At least that is my opinion, and opinions being like other things (a certain body part comes to mind), we all have at least one! Your enthusiasm and knowledge are what makes you valuable, not your bank balance. 'Nuff said. 73, God Bless, and hope you are still speaking to me (not down at me) at the next meeting. Paul Andreasen, K1JAN 4At 12:47 PM 6/7/2009, you wrote: I am not turning it over. Access to it is as it has always been. If somebody wanted to use it in the past, they could have used it and blown it up as easily as they could now. The only difference now is that we have removed the added extra complication of moving the cables around. I have not changed any policy that the club has whatsoever. People should not operate things they don't understand. I have just made it easier for people to operate in the easy mode (and easier to understand). In the past, people were intimidated from using the radio at all because there were no instructions on how to do so I really think you should read what I said again. In the easy mode, they can't blow anything up. The tuner takes care of everything, and if the tuner can not achieve a good match, the radio folds back if there is a bad mismatch and protects the final amp. I would also prefer if you would stop referring to donated items as if they are still yours. I don't care how much you paid for them, they are now club property and nobody wants to have them destroyed. You don't have a monopoly on concern for the items. Dave KA6BFB _____ From: sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [ <mailto:sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> mailto:sarcmembers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of george bernard Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:56 AM To: john maetta Subject: [sarcmembers] Re: SARC HF station use etc dave, i think u r making a mistake turning the hf amp over to the general population, that's how it got blown before. u should be requiring a check out on this item. if a member is serious about using it , he/she will be quite willing to get checked out. we are not going to turn over the vhf ssb gear to the general population at this time, it is not ready and fool proof yet. george bernard w6nre ps: i am willing to go up to the club and brief properly qualified operators on the idiosyncrasies of this expensive gear. i dont want the amps blown out due to over driving, i paid a lot of money for them. one of our new techs might make a mess of things unless properly briefed on how things work, i am sure john portune does not give experience in his tech classes. santa barbara, ca web page is www.balanceindustries.com <http://www.balanceindustries.com/> for my company cell 818-370-9407 _____ From: dave@xxxxxxxxxx To: sarcmembers@freelistsorg Subject: [sarcmembers] SARC HF station use etc Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:00:51 -0700 All We finally have a nice shelving system to accommodate are ham shack at the club. Thanks to Bob for the fine craftsmanship. It looks and functions terrific Assembling the station to its final configuration will take time and money, but one of the HF operating positions is available now for general use. It will accommodate simple use with the auto tuner, or complex high power operation without moving cables around. Here is the FT-840 station A paper copy of the manual is available for reference at the operating position. [] <http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_safe.gif> All that is necessary to operate the station in the "simple mode" is to turn on the tuner mode on the radio, and ensure that the amplifier is off and the tuner is in the "coax 1 direct" mode, as shown in the terrible cell phone pictures below. [] <http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_safe.gif> Amplifier is off. The PWR and OPR buttons are pushed in on the lower part to OFF and STBY respectively. This effectively bypasses the amplifier. [] <http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_safe.gif> Tuner mode is "Coax 1 direct" so that the tuner is bypassed. That's it. The radio is now ready for tune and play operation with the auto tuner turned on. Here is the section from the manual on how to operate the tuner [] <http://gfx2.hotmail.com/mail/w3/ltr/i_safe.gif> For the time being, the B&W folded dipole is connected to the station. It is the best all around performer. If you want to change it, you can connect a different cable to the tuner where the current one is. For those of you that want to operate the amplifier, be advised it has a parasitic oscillation issue that you need to be on top of. I am going to order a cheap kit to solve this issue. If you want pointers on how to use the amp, just ask me. In the long term, we plan to have an antenna switching system that will allow both stations to operate all of the antenna with a simple selector mechanism. I will probably send out an email later describing that effort. On another note. All three computers in the shack are now operational, and the printer is also working for both of them. Thanks to all that donated monitors and keyboards. 73 Dave KA6BFB