[sac-board] Re: FW: Re: FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
- From: "AJ Crayon" <acrayon@xxxxxxx>
- To: <sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:05:58 -0700
Richard, not sure how much this covers the I-8 / I-10 to the west.
Specifically, David said he has heard nothing. Does that me there are no
problems in that area or they just haven't talked about that area. Sorry to
be so picky about this but, after all, it is our safety being discussed
here. To be a little more specific I'm curious about our Sentinel site.
AJ Crayon
Phoenix, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Harshaw" <rharshaw2@xxxxxxx>
To: <sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 10:25 PM
Subject: [sac-board] FW: Re: FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
From David Douglass (EVAC prez).
-----Original Message-----
From: David M. Douglass [mailto:david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 8:47 PM
To: 'Richard Harshaw'
Subject: RE: [sac-board] Re: FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
In all of the discussions I have been involved with on this matter, for both
Vekol, and Az City, the reference is always to locations south of I-8 and
I-10 (east of Az City) area. I have heard NOTHING about any activity NORTH
of that corridor, nor have we (EVAC) received any warnings or suggestions
for any location NORTH of the interstate corridor.
David M. Douglass
david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Home (480) 839-2629
Cell (602) 908-9092
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Harshaw [mailto:rharshaw2@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:40 PM
To: 'David M. Douglass'
Subject: FW: [sac-board] Re: FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
We have a good discussion on this already, David. I am passing you A J
Crayon's comment so you can respond to us if you wish. If you want, you can
reply to me and I'll forward it to the SAC board email list.
Richard Harshaw
Cave Creek, Arizona
Brilliant Sky Observatory
-----Original Message-----
From: AJ Crayon [mailto:acrayon@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:30 PM
To: Jimmy Ray
Cc: Richard Harshaw
Subject: Re: [sac-board] Re: FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
Jimmy, your concerns and frustrations are understood and you are not alone.
I believe the move away from I-8 environs was necessary, as seen from these
events. All of that dangerous stuff that goes bump in the night doesn't go
past the RR tracks or I-8 as that is where they get picked up. Since we are
well north of that it should be very safe for that site.
Yet it might be worthwhile to ask David Douglas how safe it is from I-8
north to I-10.
AJ Crayon
Phoenix, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmy Ray" <jimmy_ray@xxxxxxx>
To: "'AJ Crayon'" <acrayon@xxxxxxx>
Cc: "Richard Harshaw" <rharshaw2@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 4:23 PM
Subject: FW: [sac-board] Re: FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
> So AJ,
>
> Maybe the blacked out vehicle / persons we heard the night of the AAMM was
> the real deal. Hmmm, I personally hate cowering to terrorists but
> understand
> the concerns put forward. How far are we going to let this issue drive us
> back, the Utah border??? Just venting, but I have had enough of this. The
> area on the east side of the mountains at Hovatter might have some promise
> if one could go east enough and it is BLM land.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jimmy Ray
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sac-board-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:sac-board-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of AJ Crayon
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:50 PM
> To: sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [sac-board] Re: FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
>
> Although not an official member of the SAC board I have no problem with
> using Antennas for AASP. I believe EVAC and David's concern are properly
> justified.
>
> Understand David's comment about concerns for the AAMM with the hill to
> the
> southeast. That has always been my concern for using that site for this
> event. Yet there is time to consider options as there is more time here.
>
> AJ Crayon
> Phoenix, AZ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Harshaw" <rharshaw2@xxxxxxx>
> To: <sac-board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:21 PM
> Subject: [sac-board] FW: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
>
>
> Please read and get back to me on your ideas vis a vis using Antennas for
> the AASP.
>
>
> Rick, take note about the issues regarding the AAMM.
>
>
>
> Personally, I don't have a problem with EVAC using the Antennas site for
> the
> AASP. SAC members who wanted to use a dark sky site that weekend could
> either join the EVAC throng or go to Hovatter Norte.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard Harshaw
>
> Cave Creek, Arizona
>
> Brilliant Sky Observatory
>
>
>
> From: David M. Douglass [mailto:david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 11:48 AM
> To: 'Richard Harshaw'
> Subject: Farnsworth Ranch Problem
>
>
>
> I am sure that you know that EVAC is no longer using the Vekol Rd
> observing
> site, and why.
>
> The problem which caused the Vekol Rd dilemma, is not a localized issue,
> and
> is wide spread.
>
> Basically, anything south of the E/W I-8 / I -10 pathway is having issues.
>
> I-10 is being referenced as from Arizona City Eastward.
>
>
>
> There are increased levels of police/border patrol issues in the Arizona
> City and south areas as well.
>
> With many articles in the Arizona City paper, I have been receiving
> emails
> of concern for the Arizona Star Party.
>
> The issues deal with dead bodies being found (gunshot victims), increased
> drug traffic, and increased illegal presence in general.
>
> The problems are not only south of Arizona City, but within the City as
> well.
>
> The concern is that if we have it at Farnsworth, there is increased
> probability of trouble.
>
> The trouble could be at the site, or along the road during the night (late
> arrivers - early departures - etc).
>
>
>
> The end result of several of these emails is that if the AASP is at
> Farnsworth, they will not be coming, out of concern for safety.
>
>
>
> Ray has always talked about the illegals, and the increased number of
> them.
> I have been unable to contact him for any kind of update. I have tried
> email, usmail, telephone, and cell phone. As in the past, apparently the
> only way to talk with him is to drive down there, and "hope" to find him.
> I
> even talked with Jim Bechtel the other night (he is still the owner of
> record), and he too has a very hard time finding Ray. Jim is not directly
> involved in day-to-day activity in the Farnsworth area, and is not aware
> of
> any increased level of illegal presence. Our permission to use the
> Farnsworth property is still valid.
>
>
>
> I have spoken with the Pinal County SO directly. They are aware of our
> group
> because of Vekol Rd. They were NOT aware that we use the Farnsworth
> property
> twice a year. As a point.. Farnsworth Ranch is south of the county line,
> and NOT in Pinal County. However, like Vekol, it is right next door. The
> Pinal SO is very aware of the pathways used in the area, and the
> Farnsworth
> property is right smack in the middle of it. Their advice to us is to NOT
> use that location for night time activity (or even day time). They are
> encouraging us to move the event to another location.
>
>
>
> The problem, of course, is that there are not many locations like the
> Farnsworth property, in terms of darkness, overall size, and central
> location to the various parts of Arizona (Phx - East Valley - Tucson) .
> We
> are having a significant problem finding an acceptable replacement for
> Vekol. And that would be for a much smaller group (15-20 telescopes).
>
>
>
> The way it sizes up for right now, as I see it (and I must stress that
> this
> is one man's opinion only..) is that we (EVAC) have three choices.
>
> Choice #1 is to do nothing - and have the event, as scheduled, at
> Farnsworth. Unfortunately, this is not looking favorable.
>
> Choice #2 is to cancel to event for this year (Safety Concerns), and
> Cancel
> the continued event until such time as an acceptable replacement site is
> located.
>
> Choice #3 is to move the event to Antennae Sites (Hovatter Rd) (At least
> for
> this year..)
>
>
>
> The Hovatter road site was suggested by several people. Personally, I have
> never been there. I decided to check it out, and drove out there the other
> afternoon. I was surprised to see the amount of room available, and the
> unusual "pavement" attribute. Truly, Hovatter could be considered an
> acceptable site for AASP. However, EVAC would be intruding (big time) on
> a
> SAC site, and during a dark-of-the-moon weekend.
>
>
>
> Another problem with Hovatter, would be that I think we would lose the
> Tucson group. Their travel time would increase by about 3 hours (1 hour
> north, and 2 hours west).
>
>
>
> I bring all of this to your attention for two reasons. First, I would seek
> SAC's approval before announcing any move to that location. Second, SAC is
> going to have to face the same issue in another couple of months (AAMM).
> I
> don't think Hovatter would be a good location for that, as you have
> horizon
> limiting hills to the east and south-east for most of the observing field,
> and that would be a problem with the early risers. There may be issues
> with
> the early setting objects as well.
>
>
>
> Our board in not totally united on this issue currently, but I fear they
> will have no choice, other than #2 and #3 above. Personally, with the
> direct
> knowledge that I have now of the situation, and having been encouraged by
> the Pinal County SO, and with the responsibility of the office of
> President
> of EVAC, I cannot stick my head in the sand and ignore the problem. The
> liability issues are too severe, and could conceivably become personal if
> something were to go wrong.
>
>
>
> So... I need your comments on the Hovatter location. After that, I can
> continue my dialogue with the EVAC board.
>
> And I encourage you to start considering the matter for the next AAMM.
>
>
>
>
>
> David M. Douglass
>
> david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Home (480) 839-2629
>
> Cell (602) 908-9092
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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