[rollei_list] Re: Rolleimot...first Rollei SLR

  • From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:23:22 -0300

He lost interest Peter. A team of three engineers developed the 1955
SLR prototype, two of them were Richard Weiss and Claus Prochnow, they
finished the camera for 1957 and according Prochnow, Heidecke lost
interest in the SLR production for two reasons: 1) The TLR sales were
very good; 2)Viktor Hasselblad and Heidecke talked on the issue during
their 1955 meeting in Göteborg: " After its completion in 1957,
_Reinhold Heidecke lost interest in the 6x6 SLR_. There was a good
turnover from the Rolleiflex and his colleagues persuaded him that
they could develop other cameras... The decision was also a result of
a meeting between Reinhold Heidecke and Victor Hasselblad in
Gothenburg..." (Report 2, page 26-538 and SL 66 brochure).
BTW the SLR production in 1957 would mean a continous improvement for
the model 10 years before the SL 66 regular production and an earlier
competition regarding Hasselblad when the market was still different,
but as a results of that decision, Rollei R&D became only dedicated to
design improvements and accesories for the TLR including the
Rolleimot, it only changes in 1962, after Heidecke death in 1960, when
Rollei new management decided to develop the SL 66 and to manufacture
a 35mm camera, but it's necessary to say things were good for the
Rollei TLR up to about 1960

We commented several times on the interchangeable lenses TLR camera,
the prototypes  were ready for production in 1958, this time the
Rollei management had a stronger influence on Heidecke to decide the
camera no production, deviating from the original design towards the
Tele and Wide Rolleiflexes. Anyway, "it was clear that this was not a
substitute for a single-lens reflex camera" writes Prochnow on the TLR
with interchangeable lenses in the previous page, but it was a direct
competition against the Mamiya TLR with interchangeable lenses, they
started to lose their own market.

2010/4/10 Peter K. <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx>:
> From what I have read, Heidecke did not lose interest. He was talked out of
> the idea of producing an SLR by the management of Rollei. These were the
> same geniuses who talked him out of putting the interchangeable lens TLR
> that he developed into production. They were comfortable and making money so
> they did not want to change.
>
> If you think about it, these idiot managers thought the Rolliemot was OK to
> develop but not an SLR? Talk about stupidity. The Rolliemot is odd or maybe
> useless but it was what I would call the Edsel of accessories. I am sure
> there are odd accessories things developed by other cameras makers
> throughout the years. Even Leica (are they still in business these days?)
>
> --Peter K
>
> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 3:59 PM, CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> No Peter, my idea about the TLR use is incompatible with the
>> Rolleimot, anyway it made a bit of sense when Rollei still did the
>> lasts efforts to keep the TLR as a significant camera in the pro
>> market, but I agree with you, they needed the SLR in the fifties,
>> Heidecke knew about the MF SLR advantages and it was the reason he
>> ordered to make the prototype in 1955, but in 1955, 1956 and 1957 the
>> TLR sales were excellent, he lost interest on the SLR, he believed
>> that producing regular improvements for the TLR he could maintain the
>> market for several years.
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/4/9 Peter K. <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> > Wow! No wonder why these things never sold well. There were so many
>> > variations.
>> > Do u own one of the Rolleimot units Carlos?
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:40 PM, CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Yes Larry, that is the 150 frames French magazine for the Rollei TLR,
>> >> the Rolleimot for this special magazine was taller than the regular
>> >> Rolleimot to compensate the different height, I'll look for an image
>> >> in my files tonight to add to my blog if I find it .
>> >>
>> >> Carlos
>> >>
>> >> 2010/4/9 Laurence Cuffe <cuffe@xxxxxxx>:
>> >> > Carlos
>> >> > I have been following with interest your discussions with Peter, but
>> >> > now
>> >> > your photographs have me confused.  I've looked at the rolleimot, and
>> >> > the
>> >> > picture of a 150 exposure magazine which you included when we
>> >> > discussed this
>> >> > in 2007 a link to which I include here,
>> >> > http://auction-team.de/new_highlights/2003_04/0065.htm
>> >> > and I cannot see how they could operate together.  Was there a
>> >> > different
>> >> > large capacity magazine for the camera?
>> >> > All the best
>> >> > Larry Cuffe
>> >> >
>> >> > On Friday, April 09, 2010, at 05:01PM, "CarlosMFreaza"
>> >> > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>I meant 500 units.-
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Carlos
>> >> >>
>> >> >>2010/4/9 CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> >> >>> Yes Peter, that is the image in my blog I mentioned above, it was
>> >> >>> an
>> >> >>> advanced accesory in 1963, but there were better solutions in 1969,
>> >> >>> the last year it was manufactured. BTW it was expensive, 10 were
>> >> >>> sold
>> >> >>> for sure because they were asked for the special 150 rames
>> >> >>> magazine.
>> >> >>> The average was 1 frame each 3.5 seconds, not bad for 1963 and for
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> camera designed for manual use only. %00 units were manufactured
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> most of them were sold the first years of production.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Carlos
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> 2010/4/9 Peter K. <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> >> >>>> I did see the remote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7YCYTkFybJY/S7-MO7F2SsI/AAAAAAAAAaM/5Wgbe2NXChA/s1600/Rolleimot+1+a.jpg
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> So it would appear that this was really a motor drive more than
>> >> >>>> anything
>> >> >>>> else. Wonder if anyone actually bought one for use? I mean, to
>> >> >>>> take
>> >> >>>> this to
>> >> >>>> a sporting event or a place where you would need to take
>> >> >>>> consecutive
>> >> >>>> photos
>> >> >>>> would be silly considering the size. Any idea of the number of
>> >> >>>> photos
>> >> >>>> per
>> >> >>>> second this allowed? Maybe 1 fps?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Peter K. <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Thanks Carlos. OK. But you would still need a LONG Remote Control
>> >> >>>>> Wire. So
>> >> >>>>> I would imagine Rollei must have made them at one time and you
>> >> >>>>> would
>> >> >>>>> have
>> >> >>>>> had to ask for them to be fabricated to the length needed. Do you
>> >> >>>>> know what
>> >> >>>>> the maximum allowable length of those cords would be? Any idea
>> >> >>>>> where
>> >> >>>>> they
>> >> >>>>> were actually employed in use outside of Rollei's testing them
>> >> >>>>> before
>> >> >>>>> putting them on the shelf? To me it still seems like an expensive
>> >> >>>>> solution
>> >> >>>>> looking for a problem.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 1:37 PM, CarlosMFreaza
>> >> >>>>> <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Peter:
>> >> >>>>>>           The Rolleimot does not work the way you wrote below.
>> >> >>>>>> The
>> >> >>>>>> only long cord is the Remote Control wire, in fact the Rolleimot
>> >> >>>>>> provides automatic shutter release via a short cable and
>> >> >>>>>> automatic
>> >> >>>>>> film advance, the images in eBay are confusing because they
>> >> >>>>>> "cut"
>> >> >>>>>> the
>> >> >>>>>> short shutter release cable and then it seems two different
>> >> >>>>>> cables.
>> >> >>>>>> BTW, being the power an internal source, within the Rolleimot
>> >> >>>>>> body,
>> >> >>>>>> you can't see it, I uploded these two Rolleimot images, with
>> >> >>>>>> camera
>> >> >>>>>> and without camera for a better understanding of its working:
>> >> >>>>>> http://itarphotos.blogspot.com/2010/04/rolleimot.html
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> In the second image you can see the Remote Control wire.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Carlos
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> 2010/4/9 Peter K. <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> >> >>>>>> > OK, that makes sense. But you would still need a long "wired"
>> >> >>>>>> > cable
>> >> >>>>>> > release
>> >> >>>>>> > to take a picture. So it was designed for very specific
>> >> >>>>>> > applications.
>> >> >>>>>> > Maybe
>> >> >>>>>> > that is why they never sold many (or perhaps gave them away to
>> >> >>>>>> > certain
>> >> >>>>>> > institutions).
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > You can pick one up cheap at KEH (under $200)  --->
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > http://www.keh.com/Product-Details/1/RT16999025940I/RT16/FE.aspx
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > Or a mint one on ebay for $1000. Item #380221806610 (nice
>> >> >>>>>> > photos
>> >> >>>>>> > here)
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > BTW, there is nothing to show an internal power, just a gray
>> >> >>>>>> > cord
>> >> >>>>>> > which
>> >> >>>>>> > I
>> >> >>>>>> > would assume could be from a 6v source of Ds or AC Adapter.
>> >> >>>>>> > Still
>> >> >>>>>> > you
>> >> >>>>>> > would
>> >> >>>>>> > need a very long shutter release cord. So very limited use of
>> >> >>>>>> > this
>> >> >>>>>> > device. I
>> >> >>>>>> > would say it is a solution looking for a problem rather than
>> >> >>>>>> > the
>> >> >>>>>> > other
>> >> >>>>>> > way
>> >> >>>>>> > around. May be one reason why F&H went bankrupt. Stupidity in
>> >> >>>>>> > building
>> >> >>>>>> > things for a market too small to provide revenue and ignoring
>> >> >>>>>> > the
>> >> >>>>>> > market
>> >> >>>>>> > (like the Medium format SLR market they forgot about until
>> >> >>>>>> > 1962)
>> >> >>>>>> > that
>> >> >>>>>> > would
>> >> >>>>>> > make them money.
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > --Peter K
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:26 AM, CarlosMFreaza
>> >> >>>>>> > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>> > wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> Peter:
>> >> >>>>>> >>          I insist, the Rolleimot has a 6v motor, the energy
>> >> >>>>>> >> is
>> >> >>>>>> >> provided using four D size batteries, this is an internal
>> >> >>>>>> >> power
>> >> >>>>>> >> source, no other electricity is necessary, however it allowed
>> >> >>>>>> >> to
>> >> >>>>>> >> use a
>> >> >>>>>> >> transformer.
>> >> >>>>>> >> Rolleimot was manufactured along 6 years anyway, it costed DM
>> >> >>>>>> >> 495 in
>> >> >>>>>> >> 1963,  a Rolleicord Vb costed DM 360 in 1962 and a Rolleiflex
>> >> >>>>>> >> T
>> >> >>>>>> >> DM 555
>> >> >>>>>> >> in 1961, it was an  expensive accesory.
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> Carlos
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> 2010/4/8 Peter K. <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx>:
>> >> >>>>>> >> > My problem is you would have to have electricity in those
>> >> >>>>>> >> > dangerous
>> >> >>>>>> >> > areas.
>> >> >>>>>> >> > Something that is hardly doable.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Marc James Small
>> >> >>>>>> >> > <marcsmall@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >>>>>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> At 02:47 PM 4/8/2010, Peter K. wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> The reason I am silent is that I work and travel. Do not
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> always
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> check
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> this list. So I will say that I was perhaps wrong to call
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> Rolleimot a
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> pig. The Rolleimot apparently had a "unique market" as
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> note.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> What
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> market? Apparently no one really knows, but it must have
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> been
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> useful
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> somewhere. You would need a long electric cord and a long
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> remote
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> cord,
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> so go
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> figure where this was applicable.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> As to Herr Prochnow. He was a nice man. I too
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> corresponded
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> with
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> him,
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> but
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> would not call myself an expert because of that. Not sure
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> why he
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> did
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> not
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> return your emails, or those of Bob Shell. But he was
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> quite
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> accessible
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> prior
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> to his passing and I did write him on a number of
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> occasions
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> received
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> responses.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Peter
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> The Rolleimot was developed for technical applications in
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> dangerous
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> areas.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>  Seems pretty clear to the rest of us.  What problem do
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> you
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> have
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> with
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> this
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> possibility?
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> I only obtained an e-mail address for Prochnow several
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> months
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> before
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> his
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> death, and I suppose that is why he never replied to my
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> missives.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>  No
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> problem.  Bob Shell wrote him at length by snail-mail a
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> few
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> times
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> about
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> eight or nine years back and never got a response.  For
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> all I
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> know,
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> the
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> letters were lost in the mail.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> I was not complaining about my lack of direct contact with
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Prochnow:  I
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> was simply noting that Carlos had a vibrant and rich
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> exchange
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> with
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Prochnow
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> for many years, and I did not.  And I now know that you
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> had
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> contact
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> as
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> well.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>  As you properly note, there are only 24 hours a day, and
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> all
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> of us
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> fail to
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> push things with sufficient vigor until the time for doing
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> so
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> is
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> past.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>  I
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> still have a dozen lens serial numbers to send Charlie
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Barringer --
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> and
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> it
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> is too late now to do this.  I should have done it three
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> weeks ago,
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> when it
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> might have made a difference, but I just could not find
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> the
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Round
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Tuit.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Marc
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> msmall@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> ---
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> Rollei List
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
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>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
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>> >> >>>>>> >> >> 'subscribe'
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> in
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>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
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>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> >> >>>>>> >> >> //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>> >> >>>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > --
>> >> >>>>>> >> > Peter K
>> >> >>>>>> >> > Ó¿Õ¬
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> ---
>> >> >>>>>> >> Rollei List
>> >> >>>>>> >>
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>> >> >>>>>> >> 'subscribe'
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>> >> >>>>>> >>
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>> >> >>>>>> >> www.freelists.org
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> >> >>>>>> >> //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > --
>> >> >>>>>> > Peter K
>> >> >>>>>> > Ó¿Õ¬
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> ---
>> >> >>>>>> Rollei List
>> >> >>>>>>
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>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
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>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> --
>> >> >>>>> Peter K
>> >> >>>>> Ó¿Õ¬
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>> Peter K
>> >> >>>> Ó¿Õ¬
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>---
>> >> >>Rollei List
>> >> >>
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>> >> >> www.freelists.org
>> >> >>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> > ---
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>> >> >
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>> >> > www.freelists.org
>> >> >
>> >> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> ---
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Peter K
>> > Ó¿Õ¬
>> >
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Peter K
> Ó¿Õ¬
>
---
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