[rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex for Artists
- From: "Robert L. Brengle (Larry)" <RBrengle@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:37:22 -0700
Just is that you have a unique name and I knew a Rob Lilley we called him
Pops is was just 1-2 years older than me and was my Boss, Really took care
of me back then anyway Thanks Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Lilley [mailto:54moggie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:28 AM
To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex for Artists
Who me, Rob Lilley? Nope, Army - I did go through Okinawa on my way back
from Vietnam on a C 141.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert L. Brengle
(Larry)
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:21 AM
To: 'rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex for Artists
Just curious were you ever in the Air Force stationed in Okinawa Japan
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Lilley [mailto:54moggie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:12 AM
To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex for Artists
Eric, your statement about conservators rang a bell.
I had a young man living with me this summer who was doing an internship
with a rather famous photographic conservator nearby whose firm 'Better
Image' does work for the Met and MOMA in New York City. The young man was
getting his masters degree from Queens University in Toronto and was helping
me build my darkroom for his room and board with us.
In any event, I did get an ear full all summer. You would think
photographers have to answer to conservators for their work the way this kid
went on. He drove me nuts with his condescending behavior towards the great
photographers whose pictures he had the privilege to work on.
I was left with the impression that conservators are a quiet but arrogant
bunch - but then, I am dealing with such a small sampling. The kid was a
lousy photographer by the way - Very good at technique but his pictures had
nothing to say. For him photography was all in the hokus pokus of process.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Goldstein
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 8:55 AM
To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex for Artists
I've read the Daybooks a dozen times or more... technically, Weston
was marginal at best. It was in fact a running joke between Adams and
Weston, and Adams wrote about it himself.
We have heard numerous other examples of other well-known shooters who
by their own admission knew little of the technicals. I personally
know many wonderful shooters who could care less about the technicals
and who do not know much of them; conversely, there are thousands of
technical shooters out there in the commercial market whose images are
not worth a second look. The commercial market has structures which
allow them to work very effectively without this knowledge, as has
been the case for decades. Austin Franklin gives a personal example
which I have seen duplicated many many times...
I would also point out that there are many many artists working in
other media who also know little of the materials and processes; If
you know a Conservator (as I do several), just ask and you will get an
ear full...
Eric Goldstein
--
On 10/10/08, Mark Rabiner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Weston went through a formal photography education.
> Reading the daybooks one and viewing his body of work he does not at all
> seem weak on technique or the technical side. But quite adapt.
>
> Those days what was normal was to hold the lens open till if felt right
then
> stop the exposure. Same in the darkroom. No timer. That was the way
things
> were done. Didn't mean you didn't know how to use a timer. And there was
no
> meters. At least till the end of his shooting period.
>
>
>
>
> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Mark William Rabiner
>
>
>
>
> > From: Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> > Reply-To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> > Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:35:52 -0400
>
> > To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex for Artists
>
> >
> > Absolutely. I have worked with any number of shooters who were pretty
> > basic technically but had a wonderful talent to capture light and
> > moment. Weston was notoriously weak on the technicals...
> >
> > On the flip side, I have also worked with technical masters whose
> > images were bland and pedestrian... very often those are the guys who
> > print for others or teach...
> >
> >
> > Eric Goldstein
> >
> > --
> >
> > On 10/7/08, Marvin Wallace <Marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> Hello Mark,
> >>
> >> I am curious as to what you mean when you say technique comes into
play? I
> >> would like to ask you, can one be a bad technician-photographically
speaking
> >> and yet be a good photographer? I think not! This does place
photography in
> >> a unique category if you accept this premise.
> >>
> >>
> >> Marvin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Rabiner
> >>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:45 PM
> >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex for Artists
> >>
> >> "Technique" certainly comes well into play regardless of ones media
if its
> >> painting, sculpture or whatever else is left.
> >> As it is in the performing arts.
> >> I don't believe photography stands alone as an unusual artform which
is hard
> >> to categories as art or anything else.
> >> Lots of people nowadays to learn their art need to make sure they are
not
> >> weak on computer skills.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Mark William Rabiner
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Marvin Wallace <Marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Reply-To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 10:13:15 +0800
> >>> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleisflex for Artists
> >>>
> >>> I was considering the content of previous posts, and think it obvious
that
> >>> photography at least with film, is not like being an artist,"
painter",
> >>> since the artist can be solely conceptual. The photographer on the
other
> >>> hand must at least be a great technician. He or She is forced to
master
> >> the
> >>> technique, whereas the artist can dispense with technique. This
mastery of
> >>> technique is what makes the photographer an artist within the
discipline.
> >>> This high technique lends itself to a quality camera such as the
> >> Rolleiflex.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Examples of such photographer technicians are Cartier Bresson, Ansel
> >> Adams,
> >>> Joel Peter Witkin, Andre Serrano, Cindy Sherman and so on.
> >>>
> >>> Marvin.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Rabiner
> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:25 PM
> >>> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Marvin Wallace and I Disagree
> >>>
> >>> I painted on the smooth side of Masonite as did lots of my friends
taking
> >>> painting in Washington university in the 70's.
> >>> 4x4 was my format of choice.
> >>> Feet.
> >>> An 8x4 cut in half.
> >>>
> >>> Was a bit tricky to hitch hike down Big Bend Blvd with but I pulled
it
> >> off.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Mark William Rabiner
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: David Dodge <dannysoar@xxxxxxx>
> >>>> Reply-To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:28:48 -0400
> >>>> To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Marvin Wallace and I Disagree
> >>>>
> >>>> I was brought up by artists. They frequently painted on the rough
side
> >>>> of Masonite. From time to time they'd crop a half finished painting
with
> >>>> a saw. I remember one large painting that was cropped several times
and
> >>>> wound up very small.
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Don Williams wrote:
> >>>>> At 07:27 PM 9/24/2008, Marc Small wrote, in part:
> >>>>>> Cropped photos are life. I cannot comprehend the sort of
> >>>>>> anal-retentive mindset which demands that all pictures be printed
> >>>>>> full-frame. It just does not work that way. Any one who has
spent
> >>>>>> time in a dark room has experienced the process of just HOW to
crop a
> >>>>>> decent negative. A lot of poor pictures produce a great cropped
image.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marc
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I never knew cropping could be such an emotional subject. I never
> >>>>> think about it, I just do it, both in the camera and later, as the
> >>>>> mood strikes me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I wonder how all the famous painters of the past decided how to
crop
> >>>>> their paintings. Was it a result of the size of the canvas they
could
> >>>>> afford, the dimensions of the wall or ceiling they were working on,
> >>>>> the size of frames available (if there were ready-made frames), or
what?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> DAW
> >>>>
> >>>> ---
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