[rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
- From: "Austin Franklin" <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:41:31 -0500
Hi Carlos,
Here is what you said:
"I'm afraid you are wrong Eric, DOF is purely a function of aperture
for a given lens (and given frame size), but if the lens focal length
changes the DOF also changes if keeping constant f stop and circle of
confusion size ."
You said Eric was wrong, and he wasn't. Now, that you don't understand why
you were wrong (or don't want to admit it), you have "nothing to discuss".
And, this has nothing to do with DOF calculators.
Yes, there is nothing to discuss ;-) (chuckle)
Regards,
Austin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:26 PM
> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
>
>
> Austin and Eric:
> If the items mentioned below are right, I
> have nothing to discuss, I'm happy with my DOF calculators, I know we
> discussed the topic in the past, there are archives on line for the
> old discussion.
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
> 2009/11/10 Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > All I can say is you are completely missing the point. The DOF on your
> > camera is fine, the DOF calculators are fine. That has nothing
> to do with
> > the point.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Austin
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:28 AM
> >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
> >>
> >>
> >> Austin:
> >> We had a similar discussion some years ago in the old RUG
> >> and Eric also quoted the same or similar site and I read it by that
> >> time, in practical photography I use the lens or the camera DOF
> >> scales, they are good enough to me and also the DOF calculator that I
> >> quoted and similars work very fine too, this is from the site
> >> mentioned by Eric:
> >> "It is well known that short focal length lenses have large apparent
> >> depths of field and long telephoto lenses have small apparent depths
> >> of field. _There are some very practical reasons for this conception_,
> >> but it isn't quite true..." and then the theory starts, I take the
> >> first part and get good results; if I'm in the middle of the wood and
> >> have an unique opprtunity to take an image, I only have the Rollei
> >> automatic DOF calculator or the lens DOF calculator for a quick
> >> decision, they work to me as they are marked.
> >> Carlos
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2009/11/10, Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > Hi Carlos,
> >> >
> >> > What you're not doing when you use your DOF calculators, is
> >> adjusting the
> >> > distance to maintain the same relative image size. That's
> the point you
> >> > seem to be missing..."same relative image size".
> >> >
> >> > I suggest you read the references Eric so kindly provided.
> >> Start by looking
> >> > at the chart titled "DOF for f/8, M ~= 1/20, 35mm format" at
> >> the bottom of
> >> > this section:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html#DOF_focal_length
> >> >
> >> > It shows total DOF for same aperture, different focal lengths,
> >> with distance
> >> > adjusted to provide the same relative image size. Note the
> >> total DOFs are
> >> > nearly identical for all lenses at the same aperture. Then,
> >> ask your self
> >> > why... If you need help understanding that, perhaps someone
> >> here would be
> >> > willing to help. But, please read the references first.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Austin
> >> >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:50 AM
> >> > > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Yes Austin, I know that the calculator is correct, what's
> the point?
> >> > >
> >> > > Carlos
> >> > >
> >> > > 2009/11/10, Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > > > Hi Carlos,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The calculator is correct. You're either missing the
> point, or an
> >> > > > understanding of the point. I must admit, I'm a bit surprised.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Regards,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Austin
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > > From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> >> CarlosMFreaza
> >> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:36 AM
> >> > > > > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Eric, I showed you a real DOF calculator for the real
> photographic
> >> > > > > world that I have used a lot of times with constant results for
> >> > > > > photographs that I can also show, this the practice of
> >> photography, be
> >> > > > > happy with your theories.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Carlos
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > 2009/11/10, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > > > > > Read and learn, Carlos:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html#DOF_focal_length
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dof2.shtml
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Eric Goldstein
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > --
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:59 AM, CarlosMFreaza
> >> > > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > I'm afraid you are wrong Eric, DOF is purely a function
> >> > > of aperture
> >> > > > > > > for a given lens (and given frame size), but if the lens
> >> > > focal length
> >> > > > > > > changes the DOF also changes if keeping constant f stop
> >> > > and circle of
> >> > > > > > > confusion size . You could play with this DOF calculator
> >> > > changing only
> >> > > > > > > the lens focal length and you'll see the way the real DOF
> >> > > area also
> >> > > > > > > changes:
> >> > > > > > > http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
> >> > > > > > > Carlos
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > 2009/11/10, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > > > > > >> It can be argued that DOF is purely a function of aperture
> >> > > > > and not FL.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> Eric Goldstein
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> --
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:32 AM, CarlosMFreaza
> >> > > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >> > Well, "any" camera is a term general too much. DOF has
> >> > > to do first
> >> > > > > > >> > with the lens focal length and the frame size and
> >> the circle of
> >> > > > > > >> > confusion size you consider acceptable and
> second with the
> >> > > > > f stop; you
> >> > > > > > >> > could stop down a 300mm lens for a 6x9 format at f11
> >> > > or 16 (to say
> >> > > > > > >> > something) and you could still have more deeper DOF with
> >> > > > > the Rollei 35
> >> > > > > > >> > at f3.5, my point was that the Rollei 35 Tessar has a
> >> > > > > reasonable DOF
> >> > > > > > >> > and sharpness even wide open if you focus close to
> >> your desired
> >> > > > > > >> > focusing point, in other words, it is not necessary a
> >> > > > > telemeter under
> >> > > > > > >> > these conditions, perhaps this was not the
> topic central
> >> > > > > axis but it
> >> > > > > > >> > has to do with some messages I read in the thread.
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> > BTW, the "universal" camera does not exist yet, if you
> >> > > know your
> >> > > > > > >> > tools, you also know where and why to use them.-
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> > Carlos
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> > 2009/11/10, Marvin <marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > > > > > >> >> I think you missed the point Carlos, it's possible to
> >> > > > > stop the lens down and
> >> > > > > > >> >> have a large depth of field with just about any camera,
> >> > > > > but that doesn't
> >> > > > > > >> >> afford the individual much control. That's the problem
> >> > > > > with the 35.
> >> > > > > > >> >> Marvin.
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > > > >> >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > > >> >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> >> > > > > CarlosMFreaza
> >> > > > > > >> >> Sent: 10 November 2009 17:01
> >> > > > > > >> >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > > > > > >> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> I rarely had problems guessing the distance with the
> >> > > > > Rollei 35, these
> >> > > > > > >> >> two samples were taken during a travel, with the Tessar
> >> > > > > wide open, 3,5
> >> > > > > > >> >> 1/30 shutter speed and camera hand-held, the
> film was a
> >> > > > > Kodak Ultra
> >> > > > > > >> >> 400. The DOF is still deep at f 3.5 and the
> camera light
> >> > > > > meter worked
> >> > > > > > >> >> right.
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/1433112977/
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/1456649900/
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> Carlos
> >> > > > > > >> >> ---
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