[rollei_list] Re: Plus X -PX 125- and Microdol X discontinued
- From: "Marvin" <marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:01:50 +0800
Greetings Eric, I think I am understanding you correctly- what I am saying
is that film development makes a big difference in the final print.
For example, one must formulate control conditions in order to identify
differences in developers. For one film development temperature must remain
the same and this will assist in comparison of developers. If this is not
standardised then much of the development process is down to luck-I don?t
want to go there, and I don?t see how one could arrive at a meaningful
comparison of developers with this laxity.
I am keen to point out that my favourite type of b/w print the platinum
print requires a slightly denser negative which is attained in the film
development stage. The skill is therefore crucial in the production of the
previously mentioned process.
In sum, I don?t know if you can identify a platinum print or a fine
negative. If you cannot all I can say is that some of us can, myself being
one of the some.
Marvin
-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Goldstein
Sent: 16 February 2010 11:42
To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Plus X -PX 125- and Microdol X discontinued
So what I'm hearing is that you and Mark regard yourselves as Golden
Eyed and capable of seeing subtle differences which, if we Luddites
could, would change our opinion that the differences between most
formulas (certainly the ones being discussed here) are a relatively
minor part of image making?
(That's one hellovah bad run-on sentance)
If so, I'm going to ask Jerry L to give you an official Boeing
Airliner designation... you will have earned it...
Eric Goldstein
--
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Marvin <marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I must say that development of film is a crucial skill that one must
master
> in order to be able to produce fine prints. Alternatively, "developing"
> skill is also crucial for maximum control of the b/w photographic process
if
> one does not want fine prints.
> The problem is that in convincing people of its merits(development), one
is
> only likely to able to convince those who can see the subtle differences
in
> the first place. Not being able to identify skill in development is
> "rudimentary" in my opinion and most fine art photographers.
> It's like not being able to see the beauty of a platinum print, which are
my
> favourites, and which indecently require slightly denser negatives to
> produce a full tonal range. Producing platinum prints boils down to skill
in
> development of film.
> Even the term to "soup" negatives seems to be a very haphazard way of
> looking at what should be a very precise procedure.
> Marvin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Rabiner
> Sent: 15 February 2010 05:06
> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Plus X -PX 125- and Microdol X discontinued
>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>>
>>>> I basically agree with this. There are subtle differences, and my own
>>>> preference is for Xtol, but honestly focusing on soup is missing the
>>>> forest for the trees. If you're that good that it's the developer
>>>> that's keeping you from greatness, my hat's off to you. I have yet to
>>>> see the portfolio that holds the argument...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eric Goldstein
>>>
>>> The results I got from Xtol 1:3 I found broke most of the rules and
>>> gave me
>>> quality of a whole new ballgame.
>>> Non subtle differences.
>>> In effect my medium speed films looked like slow speed films
>>> Fast films looked like medium speed films (400=100)
>>> Both in terms of grain and sharpness.
>>> You normally have to pick or or another.
>>> With Xtol 1:3 I got both.
>>> Normal for me for street shooting was Neopan 1600 which gave me better
>>> than
>>> Tri x in D76 1:1 results.
>>> In the studio Across 100 looked like Agfapan 25 or stuff of a larger
>>> format.
>>>
>>> [Rabs]
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>
>> Xtol has been a unique film developer in providing increased sharpness,
>> finer grain and higher film speed compared to standard D76. In
>> addition, it achieved optimum results on both conventional and tabular
>> grain films that I developed with it, and it lasted twice as long in
>> storage than anything else not in syrup form. Usually with developers,
>> one or more of these enhancements comes at the expense of others.
>> However, I never thought Xtol blew the competition into the weeds,
>> especially in medium format. There may be more than subtle differences
>> visible in Godzilla size enlargements, but I seldom enlarge beyond 10X.
>> At that magnification, Xtol qualities may be visible but have no
>> aesthetic effect worth considering, IMHO. Still, I really liked it for
>> its quality and convenience, and it replaced several developers I kept
>> on hand for different films. After 2 1/2 years of bliss with Xtol, a
>> developer sudden death incident ended the honeymoon. Unless there has
>> been further word on the subject, I believe the cause was an inherent
>> instability in the developing agent which is some form of vitamin C.
>>
>> Fuji 1600 is the best 35 mm B&W film ever, IMHO (I'm an available light
>> kind of guy), my only regret being it didn't come in 120. For that I
>> had to rely on Ilford Delta 3200, which was okay, but not up to the
>> Fuji.
>>
>> Allen Zak
>>
>> ---
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>
>
> I never had a sudden death incident, lucky as I used it for critical jobs
in
> which I could not redo them.
> I think if I ever run any more film I'll mix it from scratch every time
and
> have it be not a Phenidone but a Metol/Elon hydroquinone ascorbic acid
> developer.
> Which may translate to me putting a tab of ascorbic acid into D76 1:2.
(not
> 1:1) but mixing it up from scratch. Which takes five minutes by the way
you
> just get a scale.
>
> MQ+C I may call it. Its already fairly popular on the darkroom lists.
>
> [Rabs]
> Mark William Rabiner
>
>
>
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