Yes. I do not use the "c" (clone) term because even lenses with seemingly identical block diagrams can differ widely... The 50/1.5 Xenon for Leica, according to Greenleaf, shows two rear elements... Eric Goldstein -----Original Message----- From: Richard Knoppow <dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Jan 9, 2005 10:45 PM To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Planar vs. Xenotar test These are shown in some of the Kodak lens booklets included in the _Kodak Reference Handbook_ but also sold separately. Both the Xenon and the Zeiss Biotar were designed after the Opic but are not copies of it. They simply follow the same general layout. There are a number of lenses with the Xenon name. All are Opic or Biotar types but some have more elements. Schneider made a Xenon for Leica and made a variety of Xenon motion picture lenses, once standard on Arriflex cameras. --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx