[rollei_list] Re: OT - Formula One and Perpetual Motion

  • From: "A. Lal" <alal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:10:46 -0500

Hello again Ardeshir,

Regarding F1, noting that you've said contradicts my original statement.
Fans were classified as movable aerodynamic aids and were banned for
that reason, IIRC.=20
Frank Dernie has already given us his plain spoken view from the inside,
and since neither you nor I are as close to the sport as he is, there we
should let the matter rest. On a related note I'd be cautious, though,
about citing Popular Science Magazine as a authoritative reference for

Regarding your comments on perpetual motion machines, I'll say it again:
the motions (and now you mention Galaxies) in the sense you are
apparently thinking about, have NOTHING to do with perpetual motion
machines. Also, why on Earth do you need to bring in the Casmir effect,
with which I am familiar, by the way? No doubt people are trying to
figure out ways to harness the energy of the vacuum (good luck trying to
do this on a macroscopic scale), just as others are trying to think of
ways to open worm holes, but this is so far out, that to bring this into
a discussion on F1 borders on the absurd, don't you think? In your
lifetime you are more likely to see a Stirling-Cycle engine in a F1 car,
than any of this stuff, IMNSHO.

By the way, I had a look at your site. Very amusing. "Proofs" that
Einstein and G=F6del were wrong, and much other similar material. Am I
correct in assuming this is all a spoof; your way of having a little
sport at the expense of the casual visitor to your site?


-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ardeshir Mehta
Sent: 29 January, 2005 16:32
To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT - Formula One and Perpetual Motion


On Friday, January 28, 2005, at 10:49  PM, you wrote:

> Hello Ardeshir,
>> Okay, then explain why hybrids and turbine-powered race cars have=20
>> been banned by the authorities who regulate Formula One!
> Well turbos, 4-wheel drive, engines of more than 8 cylinders, CV=20
> transmission to name a few are also banned, movable aerodynamic aids=20
> are also banned.
> Whether or not a technology is banned has nothing to do with intrinsic

> merit, or lack thereof. It may have been done for cost control,=20
> safety, or any number of other reasons, including the need to keep=20
> racing close - albeit, not to NASCAR or IRL levels - for entertainment

> purposes.

Although you are right in a general way, in specifics that's not quite=20
true. Turbine-powered and hybrid cars have been banned SPECIFICALLY=20
because they would easily out-run the present ICE-powered cars. You may=20
do some research on this, if you wish: I already have. (I think the=20
magazine "Popular Science" - or was it "Popular Mechanics"? - had a=20
series of articles on this and related subjects a short while ago.)

The same thing, by the way, applies to cars with huge fans sucking up=20
air from underneath and thereby producing gobs of down-force even on=20
the slowest curves. They were banned because cars equipped with such=20
fans would easily out-distance the present cars.

>> PS: as for perpetual motion, I guess you've never heard of the atom,=20
>> in which the electrons ARE in perpetual motion. Dear oh dear.
> This has nothing whatsoever to do with a perpetual motion _*machine*_.

Actually, that's not QUITE true. It hasn't been done YET, but that=20
doesn't mean it CAN'T be done. Since in PRINCIPLE perpetual motion=20
exists at the very tiny scale (and also at the very huge scale: when=20
was the last time you heard of a Galaxy in which all the stars were=20
standing still?), it ought to be possible to utilise this manifestation=20
of the principle. The scientists Rueda, Puthoff and Haisch - among=20
others - have been attempting to do so. The principle is based on the=20
Heisenberg equation, which specifies that even at absolute zero, an=20
object cannot be TOTALLY without momentum (and thus, without motion).=20
This is the root of the argument in favour of the Zero-Point Force, or=20
ZPF. (Note that it is the Heisenberg equation which explains why=20
electrons in an atom can never be at rest.) I even drafted a paper once=20
giving my own ideas on the subject of the ZPF, which can be downloaded=20
in the form of a .pdf file from=20
<http://homepage.mac.com/ardeshir/ModificationOfTheStrong....pdf>. But=20
it is a subject that does not originate with me. It is mainstream - or=20
nearly so - in modern cutting-edge physics.

If, by the way, we consider the Casimir Effect (if you don't know what=20
it is, it's described in my above-mentioned paper: it deals with=20
"virtual light" exerting and tiny amount of pressure on highly polished=20
gold plates), the Casimir Effect, as I was saying, is a manifestation=20
of a perpetual motion machine, which however produces too little force=20
to be a PRACTICAL source of energy. But my older son Cyrus, aged 18=20
now, and indeed others too, including (or so I understand - I may be=20
wrong) the scientist Hal Puhoff who used to do some work, I believe,=20
for NASA, have devised a way to utilise the Casimir Effect, at least in=20
principle. Cyrus's proposal is a tiny rotary device enclosed within a=20
light-tight box, with just one tube enabling "virtual light" to enter=20
it, which in PRINCIPLE ought to keep spinning indefinitely even in=20
total darkness and even at absolute zero with the help of the pressure=20
of the "virtual light" - and that, even if a tiny (and I emphasise,=20
TINY) amount of power were drawn from it constantly. In fact even to=20
make such a device, greater precision than is available at present=20
would be needed. But since the Casimir Effect DOES exist, and is in=20
fact measurable, the device proposed by Cyrus, if it can be made, ought=20
to work as envisioned.


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