[rollei_list] Re: OT: A Sonnar 1.5/50 72 years old

  • From: FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:29:56 +0000 (GMT)

Carlos,
My hobby is photography, I have been taking photographs for almost 50 years. 
During this time I have used many cameras, films and, very recently, digital 
sensors. All the results are photographs. There is a big difference between the 
effects one can get in photography with various technoques. Building and 
intellectual wall between chemical and digital imagemaking is pointless. My 
photographs of my grandaughter are photographs whether taken with my film or 
digital camera. The look may or may not be much different but they are still 
photographs, not the real thing. (for me your analogy comparing a real 
nightingale with a mechanical one makes some sense if analogous to comparing a 
photograph with the real thing but quite absurd in comparing a chemical 
photograph with a digital one as if one is "real" and the other not - this is 
patently not the case).

Most landscape and fine art photographers I know who used Velvia (the last one 
changed to digital last year I am afraid) used it with the intention of making 
prints, desoite it being a slide medium. There is certainly, as far as I know, 
no way of digital projection which is any where near as good as slides for a 
slideshow.
best regards,
Frank



--- On Fri, 16/1/09, Carlos Manuel Freaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: Carlos Manuel Freaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT: A Sonnar 1.5/50 72 years old
> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Friday, 16 January, 2009, 4:49 PM
> Frank, one of the main nature of a Velvia slide film is to
> be projected via an optical projector, perhaps you could
> obtain a look similar to Velvia talking about a scanned
> Velvia film, Velvia converted into pixels, however you
> don't have ways to emulate the look about a Velvia slide
> projected via an optical projector because the image is
> based on different physical means. If you project a
> digitalized Velvia slide using a digital projector comparing
> the same image with the original projected optically, they
> will look different because the physical means used are
> different. The original will be always the chemical slide.
> 
> About software to emulate film lenses, if you look in
> google you will find a lot of people trying to emulate Holga
> lenses, Lomo lenses, old not coated lenses, film lenses
> light fall-off effect etc.
> 
> About the other point, you are changing the discussion
> axis, we were talking about the means to capture the subject
> and you replied about the subject nature, these are two
> discussions very different.
> 
> Enjoy your digital hobby Frank
> 
> Best regards
> Carlos
> 
> --- El vie 16-ene-09, FRANK DERNIE
> <frank.dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> escribió:
> 
> > De: FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: OT: A Sonnar 1.5/50 72 years
> old
> > Para: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Fecha: viernes, 16 de enero de 2009, 1:03 pm
> > Hi Carlos,
> > Clearly messing with colour balance is easy to do in
> > software, and so one can try the tri-X look on a
> picture you
> > thought was in need of the Velvia look if you wish,
> using
> > digital.
> > I had not heard of anybody trying to emulate the look
> of
> > different lenses in software though, could you direct
> me to
> > some information about this, I would be most
> interested to
> > investigate?
> > > 
> > > The lenses situation is similar, good film lenses
> have
> > > different "character" and the original
> > Sonnar is
> > > not the exception, digital media also tries to
> copy
> > the film
> > > lenses character via software, however, 
> > 
> > I quite understand, I would much rather have my
> > grandaughter around than a photograph of her, but
> usually it
> > is not possible and I certainly prefer a photograph
> over
> > nothing if I can't have the real thing! (digital
> or
> > chemical)
> > 
> > as the Chinese
> > > Emperor said when a craftsman showed him a
> mechanical
> > > nightingale, "why to hear the false
> nightingale
> > if i
> > > can hear the true nightingale".
> > > Thank you very much for your comment Marvin.
> > > 
> > > I will be off line for some days
> > > Carlos  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- El vie 16-ene-09, marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > <marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> escribió:
> > > 
> > > > De: marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > <marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: OT: A Sonnar
> 1.5/50 72
> > years
> > > old
> > > > Para: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Fecha: viernes, 16 de enero de 2009, 9:29 am
> > > > Great photo Carlos, you photos have inspired
> my
> > > thinking.
> > > > 1. Our children will be interested in our
> > photographs
> > > if
> > > > they are good enough and the kid is slightly
> > > interested in
> > > > art or business. I have the
> "Westons"
> > in
> > > mind.
> > > > 2. It seems that film is able to exhibit a
> > character
> > > that
> > > > digital cannot, such as the Sonnar look?
> > > > 
> > > > Marvin. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: Carlos Manuel Freaza
> > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Date: 2009/01/16 Fri PM 06:14:33 HKT
> > > > > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: OT: A Sonnar
> > 1.5/50 72
> > > > years old
> > > > > 
> > > > > It would be unfair for the old Sonnar
> if I
> > did
> > > not
> > > > upload a photograph taken at the widest f
> stop
> > 1.5 but
> > > using
> > > > 1/1250, eliminating the camera shake factor
> > present
> > > for the
> > > > previous portrait at 1/25 (please note the
> lens
> > > > "bokeh" for both portraits):
> > > > 
> > > > Marvin. 
> > > > >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/3199809044/
> > > > > 
> > > > > This one is almost a joke, I took it to
> > > > "test" the rangefnder adjustment:
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/3199807946/
> > > > > 
> > > > > Carlos
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- El mi? 14-ene-09, Carlos Manuel
> Freaza
> > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxxxxx> escribi?:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > We were discussing on the Zeiss
> Ikon
> > Contax
> > > and
> > > > the topic
> > > > > > could be considered a technical
> issue.
> > > > > > Eddy Smolov did a great work on my
> 1937
> > > Contax
> > > > II, the
> > > > > > camera is a pleasure to use, these
> are
> > the
> > > first
> > > > two scanned
> > > > > > images taken with the not coated
> Sonnar
> > > 1.5/50, I
> > > > regret I
> > > > > > don't have a lens hood for the
> lens
> > yet.
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > impressed for the lens sharpness
> at
> > wide f
> > > stops,
> > > > I doubt my
> > > > > > modest Epson 4490 could reflect
> the
> > > sharpness I
> > > > see in the
> > > > > > optical prints; colors could be
> more
> > vivid
> > > using
> > > > a lens
> > > > > > hood, however they are acceptable,
> I
> > think.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This one was taken using the lens
> > widest f
> > > stop:
> > > > 1.5 at
> > > > > > 1/25 sec, camera hand held, Fuji
> > Quality II
> > > color
> > > > neg:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/3198192486/
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This one was taken using a wide f
> stop
> > too,
> > > but
> > > > smaller
> > > > > > than 1.5 and fast shutter speed
> > (perhaps
> > > 1/500):
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/3198191712/
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Please see the images largest size
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Carlos
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >       Yahoo! Cocina
> > > > > > Recetas pr?cticas y comida
> saludable
> > > > > > http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
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