[rollei_list] Re: OT: 35mm RF (Voigtlander Bessa)
- From: Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:41:38 -0700
Thor und Jeffery,
Can I speak as a Leica user since 1946? I have tried them all with
varying degrees of satisfaction. I currently use an M4-P and an M6.
They are built like Tiger tanks, but with greater reliability. I now
have only Leica lenses, but I have had many others on extended
loan. The Rollei made 40mm Sonnar and 80mm Planar and some
of the ZI contenders are by far, the best of the non-Leica lenses.
The Cosina lenses have good glass, but the mounts are lacking in
quality.
I have never had focusing problems with my 21mm to 135mm (f2.8)
lenses.
Opinions on Leicas are like mouths (or other orifices); everyone has
one.
Lest you think that I am a Leica snob, I have more lenses for my
Nikon F2AS than for my Leicas. I also have used Rolleiflexes
since 1945.
Jerry
Jeffery Smith wrote:
> The nice thing about Leica is that they can be repaired for decades
> to come. There are lots of parts around and still some people who do
> fine work on them. The Leica M4 came at a time when Leica had decided
> to stop making rangefinders. A year later, they started making them
> again due to demand, and the M4-2 (made in Canada) was the result.
> They are the least reliable of the Leica M cameras, thus the low
> price. If I were going to spend money on a used Leica, I would go
> with the M6 as it has a meter. An M6 in decent condition will be
> about US$1,400. That makes it just about the same price as two Bessa
> R cameras new.
>
> The Voigtlander glass is very good. The only lens I have used from
> them that was disappointing was the 50/2.5 Skopar. If you want to go
> with a fast 50 that rivals Leica glass, the 50/1.5 Voigtlander Nokton
> asph is very good, but a bit heavy. Much, much smaller is the 40/1.4
> Nokton, a very nice lens.
>
> The Leica is a bit more awkward to load, but it isn't hard to use. It
> is much more solid than the Bessa and Zeiss Ikon, and much quieter as
> well. If you want to do street photography, a Leica or Bessa with one
> fast lens (50 or wider) would serve you well for 90% of your
> shooting. Both have very bright viewfinders and are easy to focus in
> low light. Leica, Voigtlander, and Zeiss Ikon can all use M-mount and
> LTM mount lenses (the latter with an adaptor). And the Leica is much
> more reliable in the long run than any of the others. So the only
> downside to Leica is that they cost more. Much higher build quality
> and reliability makes them a good value in the long run.
>
> At 04:05 PM 4/19/2006, you wrote:
> >Hi Jeffery,
> >
> >thanks for the tip.
> >
> >It looks nice. Thinking about it, there are two things that make me
> >hesitate. First is that the lens is rather slow. 90% (actually 100%
> >as long as it's available) of what I shoot in 35mm is K64. Often
> >indoors (kids, Scandinavian winters, etc). When Kodak kills it and
> >it's gone for good, I'm not sure what I'll use, if anything. Maybe
> >I'll get an old Rolleiflex (finally! LOL :-)). Second is that I'm
> >not a one lens shooter. I like to have 2 or 3 lenses available, like
> >a 35mm, 50mm and 90mm or thereabouts.
> >
> >Looking at prices, it appears that I could get a used M4-2 or M4-P
> >for the same (or less) as a new Bessa R3a or R2S. What am I giving
> >up by going Leica? Am I going to get gouged when picking up a few
> >fast lenses, or can I use Voigtlander or other makes? Is Leica a
> >pain in the *** to use? I like simple, ergonomic systems, but I
> >don't want to go backwards just to be different.
> >
> >Thor
> >
> >
> >On 19 Apr, 2006, at 21:43, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> >>Thor,
> >>
> >>A very nice rangefinder that would be good for outdoor photography
> >>is the Bessa R2S commemorative edition. It is a Nikon-mount
> >>rangefinder (metered) with a 50/3.5 Heliar (non-collapsible). If
> >>you decide you want to use it indoors, used Nikon 50/1.4 lenses are
> >>pretty common. The Heliar is the best performing lens I have ever
> >>used. Cameraquest sell them, but they are no longer being made. If
> >>you are a one camera, one lens shooter like HCB, it is a good one
> >>provided you can live with the slowness of the lens.
> >>
> >>Jeffery
> >>
> >>
> >>At 11:36 AM 4/19/2006, you wrote:
> >>>Jan,
> >>>
> >>>great news indeed! I hadn't been to the site in about a month,
> >>>this was not there last I looked. I'll get right over there and start
> >>>reading.
> >>>
> >>>I'm not interested in snobbery, but will pay willingly for real
> >>>quality. Is the Voigtlander glass comparable to Nikkor, or Canon,
> >>>or Zeiss? (I refrain from using the "L" word for fear of starting
> >>>a religious conflict). I.e. solid quality? It doesn't have to be
> >>>the final word (this is after all 35mm), but I don't want to pay a
> >>>premium for junk...
> >>>
> >>>Cheers,
> >>>Thor
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 19 Apr, 2006, at 20:18, Jan Decher wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Thor:
> >>>>
> >>>>If you check the Cameraquest website
> >>>>(http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt_250.htm )you will see that both the more
> >>>>refined R3A and R2A "Bessa's" will soon be out in all manual versions as
> >>>>R3M and R2M, together with a very nice collapsible "Heliar" 2.0/50mm.
> >>>>
> >>>>I just bought a 1.4/40mm "Nokton" for my bargain restored Leica M3, while
> >>>>my collapsible 2.0/50 Summicron front element is being polished and
> >>>>recoated by Arax. The 40mm has a wonderful feel! Will have first results
> >>>>on Provia 100 F tomorrow morning. If the new Bessa's are even half as
> >>>>well
> >>>>put together as this lens I am quite tempted to order the R3M as a metered
> >>>>body with the 40 mm frame and maybe even a chrome 2.0/50 Heliar to replace
> >>>>the Summicron.
> >>>>
> >>>>Who cares if Cosina RF's are not "real" Voigtlaenders or Zeiss Ikons!
> >>>>Fact
> >>>>is, that classic ZI Contaxes are out of production since 1961 and Leicas
> >>>>are overpriced new and used (unless you are lucky). Cosina's Mr.
> >>>>Kobayashi
> >>>>is giving RF shooters, who are resisting the digital trend, some really
> >>>>nice affordable RF's and lots of excellent lenses and accessories at
> >>>>different price levels to choose from. His recent collaboration with
> >>>>Zeiss
> >>>>for ZM and ZF/S lenses is a welcome replacement for the Contax G, C/Y and
> >>>>N
> >>>>systems demise.
> >>>>
> >>>>I suggested to him to do the same for MF by reviving the classic East
> >>>>German Praktisix or postwar Exakta 66 with a reliable metal shutter,
> >>>>precise metering and Zeiss designed lenses in P6 mount. Such a new 6x6
> >>>>camera could gain a good following, with the Contax 645 defunct and
> >>>>Hasselblad barely hanging on.
> >>>>
> >>>>So get your Bessa and enjoy shooting. Cartier-Bresson might have done the
> >>>>same had he lived today. I am sure he hated missing all those "decisive
> >>>>moments" while fiddling with the bottom-loading of his Leica.. ;-)
> >>>>Cheers,
> >>>>Jan
> >>>>
> >>>>====
> >>>>Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:03:03 +0200
> >>>>From: Thor Legvold <tlegvold@xxxxxxx>
> >>>>Well,
> >>>>thanks again to everyone who helped me learn more last year about a
> >>>>replacement for my friends Minox GT. They got a Bessa R3a and a 40/1.4
> >>>>to go with it a while back. I was over at their place recently and
> >>>>helped them go through it and get to know it - wow what a really nice
> >>>>camera!....
> >>>>Are there any users who can help me weight pro's /cons of Voigtlander
> >>>>vs. others? I don't want auto everything, or motors, or autofocus so
> >>>>the Hexar and Contax G2 and such are out. I'm thinking either
> >>>>Voigtlander, or vintage (is there a lot of old, nice, available and
> >>>>cheap stuff to be had?) or possibly Leica if there exists something
> >>>>reasonably priced that is comparable to the Bessa.
> >>>>Cheers,
> >>>>Thor
> >>>>
> >>>>
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