[rollei_list] Re: Large Format film availability
- From: "Austin Franklin" <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 18:01:21 -0400
Hi Eric,
What about tape? Archiving is still done to tape even these days.
I'm not sure there is any data, at least that I've seen, and I sure would
like to see some if it's available, that a hard disk is more reliable than a
good quality CD/DVD for back-up purposes, much less compared to tape.
FYI, disks, unused, can and do fail. Both my wife and I worked in a disk
group (amongst others) at DEC/Compaq, and she was involved in disk testing,
and I developed both disks and controllers, so we have some direct
experience with this issue. The first is developing sticking mechanicals
and flat-spots on rotating components and actuators. Second is simply
electronic failure over time (very component dependant, like capacitors or
crystals, they deteriorate over time). Lubrications as well deteriorate
over time (don't we know it with respect to Rolleis ;-).
So, I'm not disputing your belief, but I think it's more speculation than
scientific fact, at least from what I've seen. If you have any reference to
some actual testing, I'd really like to see it.
Regards,
Austin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Eric Goldstein
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:41 PM
> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Large Format film availability
>
>
> This is correct. At this time, there is no better solution to digital
> storage than multiple redundant HDs. Automation can creative more
> routine and consistent monitoring/backups than human control...
>
>
> Eric Goldstein
>
> --
>
> On 5/1/08, Jeff Kelley <jlkphoto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > The multiple hard drive idea is probably more archival than any
> "burnable"
> > media but it seems all these ideas require human intervention over time.
> > Therefore, chances are very high that the archived data will
> eventually be
> > lost. Hard drives sitting unused for decades will not retain
> all their bits
> > and bytes. Someone HAS to periodically transfer data to
> current media or it
> > will be lost....
> >
> > Besides, protocols, interfaces, other hardware and software
> will all change
> > over time to the point that our children's children would have to find a
> > "tech museum" to access most data that is still readable on
> ancient storage
> > media.
> >
> > I'm not aware of any current way of making a truly archival copy of any
> > digital media. In fact I'll bet my next paycheck that the aliens who
> > finally stumble across the 12-inch gold-plated copper disk on
> the Voyager
> > spacecraft will probably play Frizbee with it vs. reading any
> data from it.
> >
> > Richard, thanks for the details on the LP world. I still have
> 300-400 LPs
> > that sound pretty good.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Austin Franklin
> > <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Eric,
> > >
> > > I'd say hard drives (even if you burn two) would not be very archival.
> > They
> > > still have an MTBF that is pretty low, and they don't necessarily last
> > well
> > > over time even if unused.
> > >
> > > I'm curious why you think this (meaning that a pair of hard
> drives would
> > be
> > > even remotely archival) and what info you base your comment on.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Austin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hard drives used in pairs. No burnable media is in any way close to
> > > > "reasonable" or archival.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eric Goldstein
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > On 5/1/08, Allen Zak <azak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > Are there any media that offer "reasonable," if not archival,
> > > > longevity for
> > > > > digital files? Although I have some respect for
> posterity, in about
> > 20
> > > > > years I expect to have little or no involvement in it, anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > Allen Zak
> > > > >
> > > > > On May 1, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Jeff Kelley wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I guarantee the claims are marketing hype. I worked for
> > > > years at Sony as
> > > > > an Application Engineer and Software Engineer during the
> > > > beginning days of
> > > > > CDROM. This was when the first 1X burners were tens of
> > > > thousands of dollars
> > > > > and the gold blanks were $25 to $35 EACH. They kept the blanks
> > > > locked in a
> > > > > metal cabinet & kept close tabs on them ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've had state of the art, lab quality CDs that were rated at
> > > > 100 years +
> > > > > die in less than 3 years. I've seen the same quality discs
> > > > unreadable on a
> > > > > second machine within seconds of burning them. And so on....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CDROMS and DVD media are NOT archival backups. Period.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Eric Goldstein
> > > > <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is inaccurate information. Those claims arr
> marketing hype.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Eric Goldstein
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 5/1/08, Mark Rabiner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Those more expensive gold DVD's are supposed to be
> ok though.
> > > > > > > > I'm getting those.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mark William Rabiner
> > > > > > > > markrabiner.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > Rollei List
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Subscribe at
> > rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > with 'subscribe'
> > > > > > > > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Unsubscribe at
> > rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> > > > > www.freelists.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Rollei List
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > with
> > > > > 'subscribe'
> > > > > > > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Unsubscribe at
> > rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> > > > > > > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> > > www.freelists.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > ---
> > > Rollei List
> > >
> > > - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> > 'subscribe'
> > > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> > >
> > > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> > > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> 'subscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
>
---
Rollei List
- Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe'
in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Online, searchable archives are available at
//www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
---
Rollei List
- Post to rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe'
in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
- Online, searchable archives are available at
//www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
Other related posts:
