[rollei_list] Defnition of true Communism
- From: "Peter K." <peterk727@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:26:00 -0700
In a sense you are both right. There was a distinction between US Liberalism
and that which was found in the UK. But if we were to look at the communism
as it was originally thought. Marx and Engels believed revolution inevitable
and also believed it was predictable by scientific laws of history. They
called their theory "SCIENTIFIC SOCIALISM," or COMMUNISM. During the last
half of the 19th century the terms socialism and communism were often used
interchangeably. Marx and Engels believed socialism as merely an
intermediate stage of society in which most industry and property were owned
in common but some class differences remained. They reserved the term
communism for a final stage of society in which class differences had
disappeared, people lived in harmony, and government was no longer needed.
IMO, communism as we see it today is simply a dictatorship hiding behind
the term, much like a mask.
Peter K
On 9/29/05, John Jensen <jwjensen356@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Alan, while I think that modern Liberalism is a bit
> like the definition I threw out earlier (it is a good
> line), I do agree with your historical analysis about
> Marx, Bismarck (please note spelling) and all.
>
> I suppose that is where the term 'Limousine Liberals"
> came about. About the up-market liberals throwing out
> lots of crumbs but always OPM (Other People's Money).
> So the "few coins" are infinitesimally small of
> theirs, and mainly from others.
>
> John
>
> --- Allen Zak <azak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Sep 29, 2005, at 1:43 PM, John Jensen wrote:
> >
> > > You have an interesting history of experiences
> > with
> > > communism. Now, to provoke some controversy here,
> > I
> > > will repeat a good line - "Communism is nothing
> > but
> > > Liberalism in a hurry."
> >
> > Provocation accepted.
> >
> > That formulation assumes that "Communism" and
> > "Liberalism" are part of
> > the same political/economic continuum. However, the
> > various iterations
> > of socialism have nothing to do with "liberalism,"
> > which is part of a
> > capitalist ideological arc that includes
> > "conservatism." Both isms
> > support private accumulation while socialism does
> > not.
> >
> > Grossly simplified, conservatism consists of: "Grab
> > all you can and
> > smash anyone who gets in the way." Liberalism is
> > more like "Grab all
> > you can and throw a few coins at the rabble to buy
> > some social peace."
> > The institutions of state welfare sometimes resemble
> > socialism but are
> > usually established for other reasons. For example,
> > Europe's first
> > social security system, advocated by Karl Marx, was
> > launched by Otto
> > von Bismark, who was neither liberal nor socialist.
> >
> > I hope this helps.
> >
> > Allen Zak
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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--
Peter K
Ó¿Õ¬
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