[rollei_list] Re: Decline of Rollieflex/Film
- From: "Austin Franklin" <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:20:14 -0500
Hi Carlos,
From what I remember of the Mamiya, the lenses were not near as good as the
Hasselblad or Rollei 80 Planar. It would be interesting to see a
comparison. It wasn't folding but had a bellows. And, it was called a
"professional", which if the Rollei was an "advanced amateur" market camera,
then I'm not sure how that all fits...seems like it would be more
competition to Hasselblad than Rollei.
But, certainly the Mamiya displaced some Rollei sales, and perhaps more than
Hasselblads did. But, Hasselblads certainly did displace some Rollei sales.
Personally, given the lense quality, I wouldn't have considered (and never
did consider) the Mamiya when considering a Rollei (or a Hasselblad)
alternative. I saw only one Mamiya TLR used in my entire life at a wedding
in North Carolina many many years ago. But, I do remember hearing they were
"popular", but in my experience, the Hasselblad was far more popular.
Do you happen to have any price information from 1958-1960 on the Mamiya?
Any sales figures?
Regards,
Austin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:04 AM
> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Decline of Rollieflex/Film
>
>
> Austin:
> I have ordered right now Hasselblad and Rolleiflexes prices
> list from 1957 to 1960, you'll see the prices difference between the
> 500C and the top of the lines Rolleiflexes, your approach on this
> issue is wrong from the beginning.
> Your question is very easy to answer, in 1957 Mamiya entered at the
> professional market in a big way, with the giant "C" series of folding
> models with interchangeable lens sets, eventually ranging from 55mm to
> 250mm. Mamiya had started to manufacture low end TLR cameras from
> 1948, but the serious problem for Rollei was this Mamiya Flex C
> Professional TLR 6x6cm in 1957 with interchangeable lenses, it was
> the reason Rollei developed its own TLR with interchangeable lenses
> and making a new error, they decided to produce the Rollei Wide and
> the Tele Rolleiflex abandoning the interchangeable lens prototype
> ready for production.
> This Mamiya camera was the main competition for the Rolleiflex from
> 1957 and not the Hasselblad 500 C.
>
> Carlos
>
>
> 2010/3/26 Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > How about prices from 1958-1960? That is more the era we're
> talking about.
> > Comparing a price of a newly introduced item may not be truly
> reflective of
> > the prices some 10 years later, when the market was more established.
> >
> > I'm not sure that %15 price difference you cite for today's market would
> > make someone choosing between the two wince. Today, people buy
> a Rollei TLR
> > because they specifically want one, and today, they certainly
> are most used
> > by "advanced amateurs". I'm not sure it's a choice between the two, at
> > least as far as new ones goes. Used ones, certainly. Because
> there were so
> > many more Hasselblads made than Rolleis, the used Hasselblads are much
> > cheaper than an equivalent Rollei. A 500 C/M in near mint
> condition can be
> > had for under $1000. A 2.8F will cost you upwards of $1800+.
> >
> > Again, I'll ask...if the Hasselblad weren't around, and someone wanted a
> > high quality 6x6 camera, what would their choice have been in 1958, if a
> > Rollei wasn't the choice?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Austin
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
> >> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 5:34 AM
> >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Decline of Rollieflex/Film
> >>
> >>
> >> And this is a Hasselblad 1600- Rolleiflex 2.8C Xenotar or Planar
> >> prices comparison:
> >> A Hasselblad 1600 F complete kit with Kodak Ektar 2.8/80 lens costed
> >> U$S 535 in 1948 (I enlarged the image to see the price below the
> >> camera image on the right):
> >> http://www.hasselbladusa.com/about-hasselblad/history/a-new-age-ca
> >> mera.aspx
> >>
> >> A Rolleiflex 2.8C top of the line in 1954 costed U$S 291.50:
> >> http://dobleobjetivo.blogspot.com/2006/10/list-prices.html
> >>
> >> Rolleiflex TLR cameras were always cheaper than Hasselblad cameras, it
> >> had nothing to do with quality, it had to do with different targets
> >> -markets- and production volume _during the fifties_ ; these prices
> >> differences always existed and even today a cheapest basic Hasselblad
> >> 503 with Planar 2.8/80 lens and standard back costs U$S 6024 at B&H
> >> NYC and a Rolleiflex 2.8 FX U$S 5339 in B&H too.
> >>
> >> Carlos
> >>
> >> Prices were other significant cause Hasselblad was not a direct
> >> competition for Rollei TLR cameras.
> >>
> >> Carlos
> >>
> >> 2010/3/26 CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > 2010/3/25 Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >> >> ...It seems to me Prochnow was talking about TLRs. Hasselblad
> >> didn't make aTLR...>
> >> >
> >> > Hi Austin:
> >> > You wrote above the cause Hasselblad was not
> >> > competition for Rollei during the fifties, this meeting
> explains some
> >> > things about Hasselblad-Rollei relationship:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/HS/HSHmeetsR.aspx
> >> >
> >> > Carlos
> >> >
> >> ---
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> >>
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