[rollei_list] Re: Coded serial numbers Rolleiflex TLRs

  • From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:39:45 -0300

These are the Rolleiflex GX "Helmut Newton" I was talking About:
SN 7032950
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolleiflex-2-8GX-2-8-GX-EDITION-Helmut-Newton-Paraluce-scatolata-Da-collezione-/261543877292

SN 6036942
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/photographs/rolleiflex-28gx-helmut-newton-no-6036942-902375-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=902375&sid=d62b6868-f6d3-4bb9-9763-bb65446cd836

and I add other "Helmut Newton" sample SN 6036935
http://www.schouten-select.com/index.php/Rollei/1306013-Rolleiflex-2.8GX-Helmut-Newton-Box.html

The coded serial numbers for the GX "Helmut Newton" edition are the only
numbers with some discrepancy for the manufacture year (one, two or three
years) between some sources ( Camerapedia 1992-1993; Prochnow's Report IV
and Rolleiclub 1994; data in my files 1992-1993) and the way you interpret
the numbers. :The logical and natural way I used for the rest of the models
gives: 1991-1992 as manufacture years for the "Helmut Newton", but there
are no sources to support these years. My "special" interpretation for this
"special edition" model (both ways explained previously) gives 1992-1993
agreeing the numbers with two sources. The logical and natural way is
working fine for the rest of the models so far, agreeing the numbers with
the data from the sources.

Carlos

2015-08-14 12:41 GMT-03:00 CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>:

Ferdi:
I used both ways to interpret the coded serial numbers ( there
is no a dramatical difference, the error margin is small) because I compare
the results with sources about the model production year. The GX "Helmut
Newton" edition is identical regarding a GX with grey leather produced
between 1992 and 1993, except for the Helmut Newton signature for 500
cameras (perhaps some other minimal detail too, I don't recall now) and I
have sources saying the Helmut Newton edition was made between 1992 and
1993 and marketed in 1994 after Helmut accepted his name for the cameras.
In other words, the system is based on the guessing ( I repeat, guessing)
about the decade (and the century after 2000) according known oroducton
date for the versions. I first tried the way you wrote for the "Helmut
Newton" because it's the more logical way tp interpret the system, but if I
take the SN 6036942 for the "Helmut Newton" using this interpretation
way, it gives: 6+5=11, last digit 1= 1991. I know -according my data
source of course- that grey GX cameras in 1991 were not produced, however
if I interpret the other way: 6+5=11, 1+1=2, it gives me = 1992. If I add
the "Helmut Newton" SN 7032950: 7+5=12, 2+1=3, it gives me 1993, and
then I have 1992 and 1993 as production years for the "Helmut Newton",
coinciding with my sources and using the same method for both SN.

OK, the way you interpret the system is the way I used to interpret the
system for other models, the reason was explained above; I use both ways
for practical purposes, since the system is based on the guessing about the
decades. I tried to avoid disagreements between the numbers and the
sources , but there is no problem for most of cases, I use the
interpretation method you consider right most of the times .

Carlos

PS: Please read my next post about the number of weeks.

2015-08-14 10:20 GMT-03:00 Ferdi Stutterheim <fwstutterheim@xxxxxxxxxx>:


Op 13 aug. 2015, om 21:33 heeft CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> het
volgende geschreven:

Ferdi:
I had not payed attention to the GX and FX serial numbers
despite I had taking note about some of them. Thanks to your question I
realized all the GX and FX cameras with "normal" SN use the 6000 system
coded serial numbers. Some samples from the Web: A new "regular" FX black
with S-Apogon 2.8/80 (Planar) lens made by DHW with the serial number
6013725 (6-01-37-25) means it was made in 2011 (6+5=11), internal factory
engineering level 01, week 17, unit 25.


GX "Helmut Newton" edition, SN 7032950 (mentioned in previous post):
7+5=12 and 1+2=3, it was made in 1993, internal factory engineering level
03, week 9, unit 50. Rolleiflex 2.8GX Helmut Newton no. 6036942: 6+5=11
and 1+1=2, 1992, engineering level 03; week 49; unit 42 (A brief
clarification: Most authors including Prochnow say 1994 as manufacture year
for the Helmut Newton Edition, however they were manufactured in 1992/93 as
also it's mentioned in Camerapedia, these cameras became "Helmut Newton"
after Helmut accepted his signature for a 500 cameras edition, they were
marketed in 1994).


Carlos,

I had a good night's sleep over your mails about the coded serial
numbers. Well, it was more like a sleepless night. :-)

It occurred to me that this system you described never results in a "0",
so at 1 a.m. European Summer Time I wondered about the code for years like
"1990" etc. Taking just the first digit: (key=5)

0 + 5 = 5 -> 1995
1 + 5 = 6 -> 1996
2 + 5 = 7 -> 1997
3 + 5 = 8 -> 1998
4 + 5 = 9 -> 1999
5 + 5 = 10, 1 + 0 = 1 -> 1991 or 2001
6 + 5 = 11, 1 + 1 = 2 -> 1992 or 2002
7 + 5 = 12, 1 + 2 = 3 -> 1993 or 2003
8 + 5 = 13, 1 + 3 = 4 -> 1994 or 2004
9 + 5 = 14, 1 + 4 = 5 -> 1995 or 2005
The calculation never results in 0. This system has no code for 1990 or
2000 and both 0 and 9 stand for 1995 or 2005. That seems odd. You used this
system for the GX "Helmut Newton" (see above).

I had the impression the system was like this:

0 + 5 = 5 -> 1995
1 + 5 = 6 -> 1996
2 + 5 = 7 -> 1997
3 + 5 = 8 -> 1998
4 + 5 = 9 -> 1999
5 + 5 = 10, read last digit only: 0 -> 1990 or 2000
6 + 5 = 11, read last digit only: 1 -> 1991 or 2001 or 2011
7 + 5 = 12, read last digit only: 2 -> 1992 or 2002 or 2012
8 + 5 = 13, read last digit only: 3 -> 1993 or 2003 or 2013
9 + 5 = 14, read last digit only: 4 -> 1994 or 2004 or 2014
You have adopted this system for the FX (see above). I am not saying with
certainty this is the right system, but it provides unique codes for every
possible year.

Could you please look into this?

Best regards,
Ferdi.
----
From my MacBook Pro.
Ferdi Stutterheim,
Drachten, Netherlands.







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