[rollei_list] Re: AW: Re: Color Ultron AR 1.4/55 Made in Germany?
- From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:52:30 -0300
4) I found right now Claus Prochnow was right when he wrote me that
Rolleinar lenses were made first in Japan and later in Singapore,
please look at these two images in the Jan Boetcher Rollei Museum,
it's the first time I see Rolleinar lenses engraved " Lens made in
Singapore" ("made in Japan" and "made in Singapore" lens barrels looks
identical), I had only seen Rolleinar 1.4/55 engraved "Lens made in
West Germany" in eBay :
http://www.janboettcher.de/images/RNAR28135.JPG
http://www.janboettcher.de/images/R2835MIS.JPG
Carlos
El día 26 de abril de 2012 18:31, CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> escribió:
> Dirk, it's difficult to edit the post to answer each one of your
> points, anyway I'll answer the points you disagree or you doubt
> without to copy your comments above:
>
> 1) The Auto Mamiya Sekor SX 1.4/55mm M42 lens was also manufactured
> with the Sears- Sekor name, these lenses were not multicoated, it was
> a Planar 1.4/55mm copy designed for CZ by Johann Berger in 1959 to use
> in the Contarex camera, according some sources (Manual Focus forum,
> Taunesreiter Deutschland) CZ did not use this lens finally due to the
> Planar 1.4/50 design and licensed the 1.4/ 55 to Tomioka in Japan and
> then other Japanese manufacturers also used the design. Facts are that
> a multicoated MC version was made by Mamiya for Rollei from 1977 with
> the Rolleinar name and other for Voigtländer with the Color Ultron AR
> name, both QBM, I have the Color Ultron 1.4/55 and the barrel says
> "Lens made in Japan". The Rolleinar version has the focusing ring and
> f stop rings cover with diamonds in square pattern, the Color Ultron
> with diamonds in diagonal pattern.
> I asked Prochnow who did make the Rolleinar/Mamiya lenses after Mamiya
> no longer made them and he answered me they were made by Rollei in
> Singapore because it was cheaper than in Japan, it only could happen
> up to 1981 because there was no Rollei Singapore after 1981. It's not
> so rare that an optical factory makes the optics and the lens barrels
> are made by other companies. The Rolleinar Mamiya 1.4/55 was made up
> to 1981 only BTW, according the Report IV it was also made in Germany
> by Rollei Braunschweig simultaneously, you have a Rolleinar Mamiya
> 1.4/55 "Made in Germany" lens and then the Report IV is correct.
> Rollei manufactured a lot of lenses in the Voigtländer Optische Werke
> at the time.
>
> 2) I'm afraid that despite you worked together with the Rollei people
> your explanation is not satisfactory. There were several Rolleinar
> lenses made after the bankruptcy only, some of them were _new_ lenses
> and labeled HFT, the Rollei multicoating registered trademark, f.e.:
> 1)HFT Rolleinar/Mamiya-Sekor 2,8/28mm QBM IV manufactured from 1984 to
> 1994.- 2)HFT Rolleinar/Kiron Makro 2,8/105mm QBM IV manufactured from
> 1984 to 1989.- 3)HFT Rolleinar/Mamiya- Sekor zoom 4/80-200mm QBM IV
> manufactured from 1984 to 1989.- 4)HFT Rolleinar/AT-X Tokina
> 5,6-4/50-250mm QBM IV manufactured from 1984 to 1990.- and several
> other lenses Kiron, Tokina, Sigma wirh the Rollei HFT multicoating,
> who did make the Rolleinar Mamiya HFT lenses?, who did make the Mamiya
> lenses manufactured before the bankruptcy and that were continued
> after the bankruptcy keeping the MC multcoating name?. You agreed that
> Mamiya no longer made 35 mm lenses form about 1984 and then, Who did
> make the Rolleinar Mamiya lenses, some of them HFT made after 1984,
> others MC manufactured up to about 1996?. OK, I'm not 100% sure Rollei
> made them, but your explanation is not satisfactory at all.
>
> 3) Zooms were made or designed by Mamiya, Kiron. Tokina and Sigma,
> they are listed in the Report IV, and some of Mamiyas zoom and lenses
> were made after the bankruptcy only, they were not bought by Rollei
> Fototechnic during the bankruptcy. Who did make them?, I ask again.
>
>
>
> El día 26 de abril de 2012 16:37, <Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@xxxxxx> escribió:
>> Carlos,
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks a lot, please see my comments:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von CarlosMFreaza
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. April 2012 12:21
>> An: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Betreff: [rollei_list] Re: Color Ultron AR 1.4/55 Made in Germany?
>>
>>
>>
>> <Dirk-Roger.Schmitt@xxxxxx> escribió:
>>
>>> I am really wondering where this lens comes from.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> All the lenses available are in the Mamiya type Rolleinar design.
>>
>>> They look like the other Mamiya lenses for Rolleinar or Voigtländer.
>>
>>> Most of them are marked Made in Japan.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I have one marked Made in Germany which is very rare.
>>
>>> However, the lens housing anyway looks like any other Mamiya stuff.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> So I am wondering where the Made in Germany comes from
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Anyway, the mechanics of the Mamiya Rolleinar lenses is clearly superior
>>> to the mechanics of the Zeiss lenses 1.8/50, 1.4/50, 2,8/80, 2.8/135 etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I commented in a previous post, Rolleinar/Mamiya lenses were made first
>> in Japan and by Rollei Singapore (Rollei Optical Co) afterwards according a
>> post from Claus Prochnow talking about Rollei up to the
>>
>> 1981 bankruptcy, however I never saw a Rolleinar/Mamiya lens "made in
>> Singapore" (perhaps they exist, I don't know), I guess the lens barrel was
>> made in Japan anyway (then "Made in Japan") and the optics by Rollei. It's
>> interesting to note that Prochnow writes in the Report IV that the
>> Rolleinar/Mamiya/Color Ultron (I'd add Planar Contarex)MC 1.4/55mm lens was
>> made through Mamiya Japan and _Rollei Braunschweig_ ( Rollei had the former
>> Voigtländer factory to manufacture lenses in Braunschweig).
>>
>>
>>
>> No reason to believe that. Maybe in the case 1,4 /55 first optics were made
>> in Braunschweig, put into Barrels from Mamiya? The barrels first marked
>> Germany, later the barrels marked Japan?
>>
>> Sounds strange. Also the barrels are much more superior to the other ones
>> Rollei was able to make at this time.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mamiya no longer manufactured lenses for 35mm cameras from about 1984
>> (perhaps before this date), and Rollei lost the Rollei Optical Co in
>> Singapore from 1981,
>>
>>
>>
>> that is correct.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> but Rollei provided several Rolleinar/Mamiya lenses for the 3003 and 3001
>> cameras manufactured up to 1994 and for the 3003 metric manufactured up to
>> about 1998/2000, these lenses were made by Rollei in Braunschweig under
>> Mamiya license,
>>
>>
>>
>> definitely not
>>
>> Rollei only made Zeiss lenses in license and bought the other lenses from
>> Japan. That is for sure as I worked together with the Rollei people in an
>> optics research project and knew at bit about their optical production shop,
>> which I visited on regular basis.
>>
>> However for a long time, some Rolleinar lenses from Mamiya were sold. Those
>> came out of large stock Rollei Fototechnik overtook after the bankruptcy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> perhaps Rollei still had lenses barrels "Made in Japan" from the Rollei
>> Singapore factory as happened for the Rollei 35mm electronic shutters, the
>> "Made in Germany" barrels appeared when they used all the "Made in Japan"
>>
>> barrels, this is a speculation, but the facts are that the Rolleinar/Mamiya
>> lenses, at least the optics, were made in Germany by Rollei after the
>> bankruptcy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Absolutely not true. No Mamiya lense was made after bankruptcy in
>> Braunschweig. My 1.4/55 with marking “Made in Germany” I bought directly in
>> the bankruptcy sale in Braunschweig, so it was made far before the
>> bankruptcy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Every Rolleinar/Mamiya lens (they were manufactured from 1977) was provided
>> with the groove to give the wide open diaphragm data to the camera body (QBM
>> IV).
>>
>>
>>
>> True
>>
>>
>>
>> Rollei decided to offer the Japanese Rolleinar lenses for the 35mmm SLR
>> cameras because they were cheap and very good lenses, some of these lenses
>> designs were also very modern, the zooms specially.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zooms were, at least some, from Tokina.
>>
>>
>>
>> The German optics industry produced a few zooms at the time and they
>> couldn't compete with the Japanese zooms, Zeiss Germany did not manufacture
>> zooms and Schneider manufactured two bulkies, heavies and very expensive
>> 45-100 and 80-240mm zooms, in the other hand the Japanese 35mm cameras were
>> provided with cheaper, lighter and computer designed MC zoom lenses.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is right, that the German industry was no more able to produce competing
>> zoom lenses.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So I have no doubt, that all Rolleinar lenses were made fully in Japan. The
>> only exception is the 1.4 55 with a japanese barrel in a quality at that
>> time no one in Germany could produce anymore- but marked “Made in Germany”.
>>
>> Another explanation is that when Rollei launched the Rolleinar series, they
>> made some prototypes, so maybe they mounted the QBM Bajonet to the japanese
>> lenses, marked them Germany and showed them to journalists.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This of course is only valid for 35 mm lenses.
>>
>>
>>
>> For 6000 system lenses, there were Zeiss, Schneider, and Mamiya lenses sold
>> after bakruptcy.
>>
>> Some Schneider and Zeiss were bought, others made in license.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> ---
>>
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